Z D D P

[JC Boatguy]

I agree with the semi-syn or blend! Mercury marine went to a semi a few years back in the 25/40 and 20/50 grade! I was running the merc. full syn in the 496 and thought "blend" now?
if it works for a 1650HP engine there putting warranty on that runs for hrs. at wot. it's good enough for me!

At Mercury school they told us their oil was a BASE 40 WT and regular oil is opposite, ie base 10 wt etc

 

[1STMP]

Just for reference guys, it's a moderately built
AMC 360 with stiffer valve springs and a Comp
268H cam. 401 valves in the heads, bored .030.
Doug Nash transfer case, custom headers,
750 holley vacuum secondaries, 2500 stall
converter on a Turbo 400 trans. Haven't
used low range in quite a while. Just point
it, punch it, and hang on.
And, believe it, or not, still standing on the
Jeep factory D-30 and D-35. No ring/pinion/
bearing failures. I did manage to break a
rear shock mount though.
From day one after the rebuild, Castrol GTX
20-50. I threw in the varient of engines as
a test. I agree that if someone pours heart,
soul, and mega bucks into their project, that
they should try to protect that investment
by any means. After all, it's your money.

 

[BB BELLA]

At Mercury school they told us their oil was a BASE 40 WT and regular oil is opposite, ie base 10 wt etc

I did merc. training around 1985 when the first FI outboards were being introduced! the only synthetic I knew about then was amsoil 2 stroke and merc/amsoil gearlube!

 

[WileERobby]

I've been using a bottle of STP at every oil change since I can remember and have NEVER had a problem! I'm sure some jack-rod will give me a red X. If it's good enough for Andy Granatelli and a race car, it's better for me to use on a street driver! I even throw a bottle in on a new motor for break in, never had a problem!

 

[69hemibeep]

I have to say, not long ago I put a set of roller rockers into a friends motor and I noticed I couldn't hardly hold onto the old parts they were very slippery. I asked what he used for oil he said plain dino with STP. I know it isn't scientific but it wasn't down in the pan setting around.

 

[fratzog lover]

When my brother bought his new 1970 GTX in 1969, he took it in to the dealer for oil changes for awhile. They always used 1 quart of Mopar engine oil suppliment with the oil. Any of you old timers remember that stuff? I have a can of it somewhere.

Are you referring to the Sperm Whale additive? That has been gone since 1976. It was a 6 oz bottle sold at Chrysler parts departments.

 

[lemondana]

No-The stuff I am talking about, came in a quart can. I'll try to find the can I have and post a picture of it.

 

[ToddMcF2002]

I'm thinking of using Rotella T4 10w30 for a basically stock 66 440 oil change. No idea what is in it now. Anyone have a different suggestion? I do zero racing. thanks.

 

[snakeoil24]

All oils from rot Ella have changed levels are down you should look up on website

 

[ToddMcF2002]

All oils from rot Ella have changed levels are down you should look up on website

I tried looking up specs earlier this AM and it was all marketing. I didn't see any published ZDDP levels. Can you suggest an alternative?

 

[mopar 3 B]

Look for off road or racing oils with posted levels on the container. If you have to look online for it. Threat it as if not there. Because it probably isn't.

 

[Kern Dog]

I did that once, not a lot of years ago to an established 440 engine - "synthetic is best" I thought, since I've always
run it in all the modern-era Mopars we've owned (including 2 now).
Well....that 440 wiped cam lobes in short order. Only took about a hundred miles.
One of the lifters actually developed a hole on the bottom.
Lesson learned, after a LOT of research....

Lookit, it's illogical to assume that just because someone is very fortunate with a particular engine in a
particular situation that whatever they experience would therefore mean EVERYONE will experience the
same good luck - because they aren't going to.
The need for zinc (don't forget phosphorus as well!) in oil for engines designed prior to 1994 is well
established science - there's literally tons of technical papers written about it, not to mention the
reams of testimonies from folks all over the planet.
More folks are going to experience bad things if they decide not to use it, it's just that simple.

The current problem with replacement parts is also well known, ESPECIALLY with lifters and/or cams.
Quality has gone in the shitter and even the honest dealers will own up to it if pressed.
You couple lower quality parts with neglecting to use zinc-rich oil and you're begging for disaster...

I agree. It isn't just the metal parts, it is likely to be several factors together.
I have a few old cars here that have survived on modern oil but they are ALL medium performance engines with stock valve spring pressures. The only cam failures I've had were with higher performance builds with higher rpm potential, higher lift cams and stiffer springs.
One thing that I heard yesterday....Modern synthetic is NOT a cure-all. I started using a synthetic less than a year ago and wiped my 528 cam out recently. The oil is apparently a high detergent type that you'd think is a good thing but in reality.....the detergent can act as a mechanism to scrub the zddp from the surfaces instead of clinging to it. That is like taking aspirin to stop a headache and the aspirin makes it worse!

 

[bandit67]

Have a close acquaintance who is a mechanic at the local Harley dealership and has been for many years. He said his shops engine repairs went thur the roof after Harley switched over to synthetic oil. I won't run a synthetic in mine unless I have no other choice. Superior oil indeed, but not for all applications, JMHO...

 

[RJRENTON]

Have a close acquaintance who is a mechanic at the local Harley dealership and has been for many years. He said his shops engine repairs went thur the roof after Harley switched over to synthetic oil. I won't run a synthetic in mine unless I have no other choice. Superior oil indeed, but not for all applications, JMHO...

Perhaps you should consider ADDING a pint (+/-) of ZDDP to your favorite viscosity of synthetic oil. I use Mobil 1 10W-30 and one pint of ZDDP.....this what works for me. I believe the synthetics offer a superior lubrication package, suplimented with the ZDDP additive. Just my opinion of course....
BOB RENTON

 

[ToddMcF2002]

Bob how long have you been doing that? I’m just looking for a simple solution that works for folks now. Who’s additive are you using?

 

[1STMP]

I agree. It isn't just the metal parts, it is likely to be several factors together.
I have a few old cars here that have survived on modern oil but they are ALL medium performance engines with stock valve spring pressures. The only cam failures I've had were with higher performance builds with higher rpm potential, higher lift cams and stiffer springs.
One thing that I heard yesterday....Modern synthetic is NOT a cure-all. I started using a synthetic less than a year ago and wiped my 528 cam out recently. The oil is apparently a high detergent type that you'd think is a good thing but in reality.....the detergent can act as a mechanism to scrub the zddp from the surfaces instead of clinging to it. That is like taking aspirin to stop a headache and the aspirin makes it worse!

That could explain the longevity of the Jeep
engine as it's had nothing but Dino oil in it
since the rebuild. Nothing but Castrol 20-50
but changed religiously. Don't think I would
even consider changing to a synthetic oil.

 

[RJRENTON]

Bob how long have you been doing that? I’m just looking for a simple solution that works for folks now. Who’s additive are you using?

As best I can remember, its been about 20 years (+/-).

Engine Oil Treatment; 11 Ounce; Modern conventional motor oils lack the metal protection older engines require. Use as directed in gasoline And diesel engines, antique And classic cars, motorcycles, tractors, agricultural And industrial machinery, and all racing applications. Designed for engines requiring SL / CI rated oil and older. This includes 2004 and older gasoline engines And 2006 and older diesel engines.

• Rislone Engine Oil Supplement with Zinc Treatment is a petroleum oil performance supplement "booster" containing ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) Zinc and Phosphorus EP (extreme pressure) additives to help protect internal engine components including pistons, flat tappet camshafts, lifters, pushrod tips and the valvetrain.
• High performance formula stabilizes the motor oil to insure against viscosity and thermal breakdown.
• Reduces friction And wear, especially at start-up, helping to eliminate dry starts. Less friction means less wear and a cooler running, longer lasting engine.
• Clinging action keeps bearings and other internal engine parts lubricated where normal oil fails.
• Enhances regular motor oil turning it into a high performance lubricant for use in older engines and racing applications.
• Rislone works with all petroleum based motor oils including conventional, high mileage and synthetic formulas.

Cost is approximately $12.00/12 oz bottle at O'Reilly Auto parts or similar outlets. Is it worth the additional cost.....only you can make the determination for your application.....for me ...yes. Oil gets changed annually.......~700-1000 miles /year.
BOB RENTON

 

[KENTON]

This is from the article mentioned above, by the way it's a good read.


39. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Lucas 5W30, API SN, conventional = 51,545 psi
zinc = 1565 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1277 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The psi value here is a “breath taking” 44% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

 

[RJRENTON]

This is from the article mentioned above, by the way it's a good read.


39. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Lucas 5W30, API SN, conventional = 51,545 psi
zinc = 1565 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1277 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The psi value here is a “breath taking” 44% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

What is the significance of the 51,545 psi. It is measuring exactly what? Film strength of the lubricant or ???. Unbounded or unqualified numbers mean nothing....."breath taking" or 44% of what? Who preformed the test of the Edelbrock additive that "significantly" reduced the wear prevention capabilities, against which ASTM or API standards? Please provide the link or documentation so I can compare myself.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Kern Dog]

This is from the article mentioned above, by the way it's a good read.


39. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Lucas 5W30, API SN, conventional = 51,545 psi
zinc = 1565 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1277 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The psi value here is a “breath taking” 44% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

That is what Dwayne Porter told me. He said that after reading tech articles and scientific studies, the "cure in a can" additives can cancel each other out, leaving you worse off than before. Rick Ehrenberg also agrees. They both said that this is delicate chemistry that a backyard guy with no testing equipment has no way of determining the actual outcome of blindly mixing these complex formulas.