Replacement Alternator AMP Max

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

I am curious about something.. why do people want max amp alternators.. if a lower amp alt puts out enough to charge the battery and run the car/lights and all, what's the advantage to putting on a higher output one?

More available output at idle speeds over any factory spec’d alternator would be my response to that question. Especially A/C cars where factory spec’d alternators tend not to keep up with loads while idling.

 

[Moparfever65]

The size of the alternator doesn't determine the size of wiring, the load does. If you don't add accessory loads any size alternator is okay.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

I am curious about something.. why do people want max amp alternators.. if a lower amp alt puts out enough to charge the battery and run the car/lights and all, what's the advantage to putting on a higher output one?

The output specs posted is the max. At iddle is tipically around half of the max power (check the response chart posted)

So if you install a 45 amps alt, the iddle output ( even worst with the old factory pulley sizes ) could be around 20-25 amps. Very poor capacity once you begin to turn on accs. Will get constant discharge reading and then a full charge giving throttle to get back the load sourced by the batt on the previous stage. Then everything begins to burnt.

A guaranteed iddle speed power capacity will save this situation.

The size of the alternator doesn't determine the size of wiring, the load does. If you don't add accessory loads any size alternator is okay.

CORRECT!

Hence why a starter motor gets a 2 or 4 gauge wire and the glove box light gets a 16 or 18 gauge wire BOTH COMING FROM SAME POWER SOURCES.

So you can install a 500 amps alt but amperes are not offered for free if they are not requested by accs.

With a higher alt output capacity you guarantee to keep the batt out of the game as much as posible, keeping safe the ammeter and a stable charging system.

 

[RJRENTON]

The output specs posted is the max. At iddle is tipically around half of the max power (check the response chart posted)

So if you install a 45 amps alt, the iddle output ( even worst with the old factory pulley sizes ) could be around 20-25 amps. Very poor capacity once you begin to turn on accs. Will get constant discharge reading and then a full charge giving throttle to get back the load sourced by the batt on the previous stage. Then everything begins to burnt.

A guaranteed iddle speed power capacity will save this situation.

CORRECT!

Hence why a starter motor gets a 2 or 4 gauge wire and the glove box light gets a 16 or 18 gauge wire BOTH COMING FROM SAME POWER SOURCES.

So you can install a 500 amps alt but amperes are not offered for free if they are not requested by accs.

With a higher alt output capacity you guarantee to keep the batt out of the game as much as posible, keeping safe the ammeter and a stable charging system.

Nothing stated that is true...only guesstimate, and unsubstantiated assumptions.....example:
The output specs posted is the max. "At iddle is tipically around half of the max power (check the response chart posted)"......show us your source and or calculations.

"With a higher alt output capacity you guarantee to keep the batt out of the game as much as posible, keeping safe the ammeter and a stable charging system".....what does this mean? ..... again show us how you arrived at this assumption or conclusion....your opinion is worth zero, unless you can back up what you are talking about. BTW..... the correct term you struggle with is IDLE....not iddle.....you must have taken lessons from Kamala Harris.....word salad....phrases that means nothing.......
BOB RENTON

 

[RemCharger]

Nothing stated that is true...only guesstimate, and unsubstantiated assumptions.....example:
The output specs posted is the max. "At iddle is tipically around half of the max power (check the response chart posted)"......show us your source and or calculations.

"With a higher alt output capacity you guarantee to keep the batt out of the game as much as posible, keeping safe the ammeter and a stable charging system".....what does this mean? ..... again show us how you arrived at this assumption or conclusion....your opinion is worth zero, unless you can back up what you are talking about. BTW..... the correct term you struggle with is IDLE....not iddle.....you must have taken lessons from Kamala Harris.....word salad....phrases that means nothing.......
BOB RENTON

If you have something productive to add, by all means go ahead and do it. Is there something preventing that?

 

[Nacho-RT74]

1st. At least I speak a second language (better or worst). Not too bad to be “uneducated”.

2nd. If my car wasn’t 6500 miles from me sure I’ll prove this with actual ammeter readings like 72RoarunnerGTX did on the great thread he posted… since i have DRIVEN my Charger DAILY (as I have allways said) with all kind of test posible to reach the best performance as possible on this area with what I have had on hands. I just can testify with diagrams and experience MY OWN SUCCESS. and A LOT of Moparians have made it with SUCCESS along these years since I made my firs thread about this at dodgecharger.com back in 2007. Hence why it began to be popular as the "Nacho's parallel mod" ON SEVERAL MOPAR BOARDS since that... but I have allways have said IS NOT my design, just refreshing the MaMopar proceedement. I just explained with detail how to proceed on several stages and options to make it and posted why it works, where it seems nobody took care to do it before.

3rd. At idle tipically around half of the max output is reached… well I POSTED A RESPONSE CHART for a manufacturer as a testimonial at FULL FIELD. Is STILL not that a good info source FOR YOU?

Powermaster and TuffStuff rate their HIGH PERFORMANCE ALTS on AROUND 60-65% of its max output at iddle... but those are HIGH PERFORMANCE units... CHECK THEIR OWN PUBLISHED SPECS.

ISN'T STILL THAT ENOUGH FOR YOU?



P.S.: your head should be on Mount Rushmore… because you don’t rock, you ARE a rock

 

[ckessel]

Nacho, thanks for the heads up about the HL relay differences on the oe wiring. Down the road I'll be getting one from Crack for my 67 wagon. On the expertise topic, I'm glad I blocked IKE[ I Know Everything].

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Allways a pleasure.

Need to note, when adding accs/HL relays upgrade with factory stock alternator STILL on the correct spot will also harm the charging network IF ALT IS NOT ABLE TO HOLD THE REQUESTED LOAD. Because you could get also a constant discharge reading, just that this time the reading will be for real.

If your charging system is showing constant discharge reading, time to upgrade the alt. And you’ll find ALL MOPARS require a alternator output upgrade… STILL on factory loads. Specially constantly driving under heavy traffic stages where your are not able to keep up the engine revs to get the stock alt supplying the loads. Maybe not a big problem when driving into highways where you are maybe over 1500-2000 rpms and stock alts are able to provide close to its max output if requested.

Sometimes a pulley upgrade on the existant alt could be enough, if everything is stock and you are not adding any extra acc. But still if you use your car as a driver and find yourself into a traffic light, at night and raining… will notice all the load missed. The pulley change still won’t be enough

Also time to check Charging network conditions… ammeter, and bulkhead connections, because loosen, dirty and already harm system will fail on the load supply capacity and will damage even faster everything causing MORE heat everywhere.

A bad conditions charging system is like not having brakes when needing. So the same we all check brakes system, charging system MUST BE checked. We are driving 50 years cars tipically abused. The electrical system uses to be the most underestimated part of the car and the more neglected and hacked. Is easy to get it trickied and apparently “fixed” when is not really.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

If you have something productive to add, by all means go ahead and do it. Is there something preventing that?

well, he corrected me the Idle spell ( even it was a typo mistake, but who cares ). Maybe that could be rated as "productive add"? LOL.

Still with that, I won't correct him how "Ccompressor or rhe Sundun" phrase must be spell it... oooooops


@Tyron68 sorry for all this colateral discussion half-higjhacking your thread, but it is what it is with this guy when begins to post replies without any respect.

 

[RJRENTON]

I am curious about something.. why do people want max amp alternators.. if a lower amp alt puts out enough to charge the battery and run the car/lights and all, what's the advantage to putting on a higher output one?

The advantage is zero.....other than to say to your buddies at the car shows......"mine's bigger than yours"....(assuming we're talking about alternators and not carburetors or body parts, ie. the one eyed trouser worm)........"one up-mans ship", so to speak, tends to inflate ones ego.......
BOBRENTON.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

A Rock

 

[Moparfever65]

Just as a related side note, many items in the car, lights, motors, etc. require a certain amount of power. Power being volts x amps, so if your voltage drops, the current draw goes up. With high current loads heating in the connector terminals goes up, and you can get to thermal runaway. The hotter the conductor gets, the more resistance there is, the more resistance the hotter it gets. Good-bye bulkhead connector.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Just as a related side note, many items in the car, lights, motors, etc. require a certain amount of power. Power being volts x amps, so if your voltage drops, the current draw goes up. With high current loads heating in the connector terminals goes up, and you can get to thermal runaway. The hotter the conductor gets, the more resistance there is, the more resistance the hotter it gets. Good-bye bulkhead connector.

Good reason to eliminate those un-needed disconnects in the charge circuit at the bulkhead connector, by-pass those troublesome Packard terminals as the factory did on their fleet production. By far the weakest link in this charging system, always has been.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Or a good cleaning and service over the existant system... then upgrade per your favourite method to get easier paths for the current. Personal prefferences here according with your setup and needs.

 

[Tyron68]

Wanted to provide a quick update as there was a lot of responses to my question. First off, crackbacks headlamp relay kit fixed my light issue. My dud alternator did not have enough juice to keep them on however. I wound up going with a 65amp alternator from Napa that has a lifetime warranty. I got it put on yesterday and after four years of messing with this finally have fully functional operating headlights. In regards to the ammeter bypass, I have zero motivation to mess with that right now. My entire dash and wiring is less than 5 years old and the only electrical issue I have had with this car is with my headlights. Thanks again for the responses. Although there are people on these forums that seem to be unnecessarily arrogant and rude, I don’t think it’s possible to find a forum anywhere that those people don’t troll.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Well… somebody told around there is not a reason to increase the alt output on these cars (still on a fairly new installation)… LOL.

If you sourced correctly the headlights relay kit from alt stud, you should be fine with the new alt and still keep the original wiring and ammeter on factory setup. With that alt your ammeter flickering will be smaller than with the one came out from factory. Not enough yet if you ask me but at least better that it came out.

 

[Tyron68]

Well… somebody told around there is not a reason to increase the alt output on these cars (still on a fairly new installation)… LOL.

If you sourced correctly the headlights relay kit from alt stud, you should be fine with the new alt and still keep the original wiring and ammeter on factory setup. With that alt your ammeter flickering will be smaller than with the one came out from factory. Not enough yet if you ask me but at least better that it came out.

Yep, set up the headlight relay kit per the instructions which had me come off the alternator stud. My “struggle” with the alternator is that people’s responses were all over the place (ie factory 45amp set up is enough, go with 75, 85, 95 amp, etc). So the 65 amp in my head was a happy medium lol.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

The ideal alternator is the one able to feed all the car requirements at idle or at the slower speed as possible.

Maybe with headlights upgrade (not the relays really by itself, but the kind of headlights in use i.e. old school halogens) a 65 amps seems to be enough. It could be enough on a basic driving conditions, but as soon you begin to turn on accessories you find how short is that 65 amps unit at idle yet. The day you begin to drive down the rain on traffic will notice it, where you’ll have to turn on also wipers and AC-Heater.

(Don’t ask me how I know it LOL)

 

[Crackedback]

Wanted to provide a quick update as there was a lot of responses to my question. First off, crackbacks headlamp relay kit fixed my light issue. My dud alternator did not have enough juice to keep them on however. I wound up going with a 65amp alternator from Napa that has a lifetime warranty. I got it put on yesterday and after four years of messing with this finally have fully functional operating headlights. In regards to the ammeter bypass, I have zero motivation to mess with that right now. My entire dash and wiring is less than 5 years old and the only electrical issue I have had with this car is with my headlights. Thanks again for the responses. Although there are people on these forums that seem to be unnecessarily arrogant and rude, I don’t think it’s possible to find a forum anywhere that those people don’t troll.

Good to read the relay kit helped.

The increase in alternator amps really isn't for the max output. Usually the low rpm output levels are increased. As others have mentioned, you want an alternator that puts out adequate energy at idle to allow all the requested power to be satisfied, WITHOUT having to backfeed/draw from the battery. That is when the bulkhead starts to fry.

I like the densos off a late 80's toyota PU/4runner. They don't look original, they do put out good power at idle speeds. Changing the alternator pulley can help low speed as well. Make sure you don't exceed the max rpm and over rev it, same as an engine limit.

 

[Nacho-RT74]

Yes, the Nippondenso alts are really good at idle, far superior than factory units still being around the same max ouput spec from the stock ones. These are as far I recall Delta winding stator design, while Chrysler used Y winding stators.

Personally I prefer to keep the stock look and no get into mods (Brackets etc…) but at each own.