Shifter issues

[340runner]

So, I've been chasing when I can on my time off my shifter linkage issue, where it sticks when trying to shift 2nd to 3rd. I've tried readjusting per the hurst shifter, even with the specialty tool to no avail. I still have this lip on 3rd, I think this might be related to it not wanting to shift quickly.
Would send a video of it actually jamming up, but it's kinda hard to record that while driving fast.
It's also only jamming up when I'm trying to shift quickly

Thanks for the help

 

[pnora]

Without the engine running and the car moving there will be some forms of friction. What does it shift like when driving normally?

 

[340runner]

Without the engine running and the car moving there will be some forms of friction. What does it shift like when driving normally?

Well 1st to 2nds fine, but I have to baby the 2nd to 3rd shift, like as in move it over I guess and go in straight on 3rd, not like how i can kinda go directly from 2nd to 3rd like I can in my 6 speed jeep or literally any other manual car, even with the same hurst shifter. I can provide another video if you need more clarification on what I mean
If i don't baby it it goes like pretty much up to where that lip is and it like hits a hard wall, and it sticks there and I have to jerk around the shifter handle to free it up back into neutral

I might tomorrow after school get one of my friends to record the shifter when I am actually driving

This shift is killing my ET, holy hell I'm probably spending at least 3 or 4 tenths on a single shift, maybe more

 

[69 Sleeper Bee]

Have you had someone under the car to observe things when you are dry shifting 2-3 to make sure it's not a linkage rod binding issue ?

 

[PRND21]

Remove the shift rod for 3-4. See if the shifter still has the same feel, if it does then the problem is in the shifter. If not see if you can feel it by moving the transmission lever. I’d bet the problem is in the detent or maybe the shift fork/slider. Pull the side cover off and have a look.

 

[matthon]

I had the same issue, rebuilt trans, new shifter, everything adjusted correctly.

Side cover gearshift lever was the problem.

The squared off section that the shift linkage lever bolts to wears down causing the linkage lever to turn before the gearshift.
Also, the depth of the squared off section is very shallow, way less than that of the linkage lever.

When going from second to third it would not come completely out of second as the shifter lever would turn first by itself, never getting completely out of second. No lock washer, lock tight, or torque on the nut would hold the shifter lever on to the shaft.

Sent old shift linkage levers off to Brewers, they machined new ones, the shift lever is now a tight fit, and the squared off section has a little more depth to it.

See it at roughly 19:30:

 

[340runner]

I had the same issue, rebuilt trans, new shifter, everything adjusted correctly.

Side cover gearshift lever was the problem.

The squared off section that the shift linkage lever bolts to wears down causing the linkage lever to turn before the gearshift.
Also, the depth of the squared off section is very shallow, way less than that of the linkage lever.

When going from second to third it would not come completely out of second as the shifter lever would turn first by itself, never getting completely out of second. No lock washer, lock tight, or torque on the nut would hold the shifter lever on to the shaft.

Sent old shift linkage levers off to Brewers, they machined new ones, the shift lever is now a tight fit, and the squared off section has a little more depth to it.

See it at roughly 19:30:

Well, I ended up replacing my shift levers, because one of them wasn't even for the right model, and when I replaced the linkage lever it felt like there was no slop at all in it.

 

[340runner]

Have you had someone under the car to observe things when you are dry shifting 2-3 to make sure it's not a linkage rod binding issue ?

I actually haven't. What do you mean by linkage rod binding issue?

 

[AR67GTX]

He’s probably alluding to the fit of the rods, bushings and levers. Do you have the steel Hurst bushings? Are the rods tight in the levers - no rocking or loose movement? After replacing the shift levers do you still have the same problem?

Is this a complete Hurst unit, shifter body, transmission levers and rods? My 66 Sat had a Brewers OEM Hurst unit from a later year, modified to accept an OEM Inland shifter arm. But it was installed with Inland rods and transmission levers which seemed to be the intent and it was kind of sloppy. I bought a Hurst rod and transmission levers kit and installed it although I had to grind and file down the reverse rod to fit the shifter reverse lever for the inland rod. The hole was too small for a bushing or Hurst rod end. But when I was done I had a very tight and precise shifter.

 

[340runner]

It's a new hurst competition plus, rebuilt transmission, shift levers on the trans are new, rods are used but look good. I just dont know? Is it that it's so new that it's still kinda tight? It's only maybe 2000 miles on the trans and everything, 500 on the shifter. Might try shortening the rods and playing with more minute adjustments

 

[69 Sleeper Bee]

I actually haven't. What do you mean by linkage rod binding issue?

Basically what @AR67GTX is saying. It's an easy start to visually inspect things from underneath to rule any issues out when shifting.
And then do what @PRND21 suggests to isolate the shifter as a potential problem. JMHO

 

[AR67GTX]

Matthon may be on to your problem - not sure. Usually if the shifter hangs going between gates, it’s a neutral gate/rod adjustment issue. If it goes between gates fine but hangs in the gate and won’t go into a gear, it’s an internal trans issue. A Hurst is preloaded by spring to rest in the 3-4 gate, so in slipping it out of second it should spring over to the 3-4 gate on its own and then just need a push forward to slide into 3rd. So is the lip in moving to the 3-4 gate, or in moving into 3rd gear? The video seems to indicate it’s the latter so I would lean towards Matthon’s point or something internal in the slider, slider keys, worn engagement teeth, etc. You say the shifter only has 500 miles on it but the transmission 2000. Was it doing it before installing this shifter?

 

[340runner]

Matthon may be on to your problem - not sure. Usually if the shifter hangs going between gates, it’s a neutral gate/rod adjustment issue. If it goes between gates fine but hangs in the gate and won’t go into a gear, it’s an internal trans issue. A Hurst is preloaded by spring to rest in the 3-4 gate, so in slipping it out of second it should spring over to the 3-4 gate on its own and then just need a push forward to slide into 3rd. So is the lip in moving to the 3-4 gate, or in moving into 3rd gear? The video seems to indicate it’s the latter so I would lean towards Matthon’s point or something internal in the slider, slider keys, worn engagement teeth, etc. You say the shifter only has 500 miles on it but the transmission 2000. Was it doing it before installing this shifter?

No, but the old shifter was also pretty sloppy so not sure sure
The lip is when it's moving into 3rd
I dont know what to expect when I pull off the side cover, can I just pop it out with everything in neutral? Is there anything that's gonna shoot at me aside from the obvious trans fluid? When I'm in it what wear should I be looking for? Also, if it's something in the side cover should I even worry about individually replacing the part or should I just get the whole assembly from brewers for like 220$

Hoping it's not something deeper than the side cover assembly...

 

[AR67GTX]

I would search the forum on removal of the cover. I’ve rebuilt Muncies and Toploaders but I haven’t been inside my A833 yet. Just doing some light browsing it’s tight getting it off while in the car. You will need to keep track of which bolts go in what hole and then there was apparently a change in the side cover design over the years so you will need to see which you have when it’s separated.

With a newly rebuilt transmission I would look at the condition of the small engagement teeth on the brass syncros and the main gears. If new syncros were installed they should be pretty sharp. If they look blunted and worn then the rebuilder didn’t replace them. The teeth on the main gears are going to have some wear and blunting from decades of use unless a gear was replaced. And that’s when the real Carnak moment arrives - when is wear too much wear. Best bet is to take some fairly close up, high resolution photos and post them for some of the guys to look at. Or you might talk to a service tech at someplace like Brewers and see if he would look at them. Much more than that and it’s going to have to be pulled apart. Good luck.

 

[340runner]

I would search the forum on removal of the cover. I’ve rebuilt Muncies and Toploaders but I haven’t been inside my A833 yet. Just doing some light browsing it’s tight getting it off while in the car. You will need to keep track of which bolts go in what hole and then there was apparently a change in the side cover design over the years so you will need to see which you have when it’s separated.

With a newly rebuilt transmission I would look at the condition of the small engagement teeth on the brass syncros and the main gears. If new syncros were installed they should be pretty sharp. If they look blunted and worn then the rebuilder didn’t replace them. The teeth on the main gears are going to have some wear and blunting from decades of use unless a gear was replaced. And that’s when the real Carnak moment arrives - when is wear too much wear. Best bet is to take some fairly close up, high resolution photos and post them for some of the guys to look at. Or you might talk to a service tech at someplace like Brewers and see if he would look at them. Much more than that and it’s going to have to be pulled apart. Good luck.

Yeah, seems like its coming to pulling the trans. Oh well, hopefully pulling the motor soon for a rebuild if I can get some help from someone more experienced near Chicago, might as well take a look then. I also might just swap the side cover for the older ball and detent style, as I've heard it's a lot better for quick shifting

On that note, if anyone knows anyone in the Chicagoland area willing to help out with a small block rebuild, nows the time to speak up haha. Already asked on FABO, got maybe a couple leads. I'm going to try and be at Mo Power Madness and the next fox river chapter meet at least

 

[Daves69]

You've already verified the neutral gate is aligned more than once.
A couple things I might try to isolate an issue before I rip and tear....
...Setup a cam underneath to watch the shift linkage and verify the shift to 3rd is not trying to drag the 1-2 at all.
...Run it through the pattern then shift to neutral. Get under it remove the 3-4 rod from the lever. With an adjustable shift the trans into 3rd and determine if the issue is still present.

 

[matthon]

Use the KISS principle, check all of the small things mentioned first, including any possible interference of the shift rods at the shifter.

Pulling the cover in car is possible.
Drain fluid first.
Definitely keep track of the position of the cover bolts. IIRC, the 2 long bolts that are fully threaded are in the bottom right, and there is one with a longer shoulder that fits into the trans.
The shift forks will fall down when removed, so to reinstall put some Assemblee Goo (that's the brand, Brewer's has it) to keep the forks in place when installing the cover.
Before installing cover put the trans in reverse, install cover, bolts snug but not tight, check to make sure trans shifts in and out of reverse, if not tap cover into different position, place trans back into reverse and check reverse again.

 

[340runner]

So, was able to finally get a cam under and record. Holy hell i need loctite on those bolts, that probably contributes a good bit to my issue. I tightened them down when I replaced the forks very snugly. Second thing, after recording the video, it now doesn't have that lip anymore. I dont get it, haven't changed a thing. I'll loctite and tighten, then test drive tomorrow and update with results.



And then this is kinda what it does when shifting while driving, I have to exaggerate it more though when stationary to get it to jam.

I see it's not getting out of 2nd, does this mean I need to shorten my 2nd rod? I'm not sure how to fine tune these things outside of the service manual

 

[69 Sleeper Bee]

Hopefully that is all it was. That's why you look for the simple things first.

 

[340runner]

Hopefully that is all it was. That's why you look for the simple things first.

Well, I dont think it is. Its done this time and time again, from when I had old shift levers in and the new ones when I first installed them and they were tight, I definitely think it exacerbated the issue though

To further help you guys understand a bit more too, I can have a friend record the shifter when I'm driving and ill do a pull where itll most definitely jam up