Help! Second gear issue with 727

[Dad's 64]

Hey guys,

Sorry in advance for the long post, but I'm banging my head against the wall with my dad's '64 Belvedere Max Wedge clone. Quick background...The transmission is a push-button 727 with a Cheetah reverse manual valve body. It was built about 30 years ago and has probably been driven no more than 2500 miles to cruise nights over that time. It was behind a mild 383 with a low-stall 12" GER converter. About 5 years ago he got into an accident with the car so it sat unused as it was being worked on. We just finished putting it back together after the bodywork and paint, now with a fresh 440 and a 10" 3000 RPM stall TCI converter. A local shop put finishing touches on it (breaking-in the motor and taking care of other details, including a transmission fluid/filter change and a band adjustment). When we got it home, we installed a deep Trick Flow pan because the chrome one on the car was leaking from a warped flange.

For a couple of trips around the block, everything seemed fine with the driveline. The next time we took the car out, it started locking-up whenever shifting into 2nd gear. It almost felt like you were putting your foot on the brakes as soon as you hit 2nd; the engine would labor like it was under a load and the car would come to a stop. If shifted into 3rd or back into 1st, everything was ok.

I read in another post where someone having the same trouble brought the revs up higher on a 1-2 shift and the issue cleared up. We tried the same thing with the car on jack stands and it seemed to "fix" the issue. But that was short-lived, as it started locking up again on the next ride after about a mile of driving.

After reading a few more posts here and on other sites, this past weekend i re-adjusted the bands (tightened to 72 inch pounds then backed-out 2.5 turns) and adjusted the shift cable according to an old Chrysler service bulletin. Note we found some clutch material in the bottom of the pan but no metal to speak of. We started it up on the jack stands and 2nd gear shifted fine (figured we nailed it!), so we let it run until warm to get the fluid to the proper level and then shut it off. About 10 minutes later on the restart, 2nd gear started locking-up again.

Appreciate anyone's thoughts on what's going on! Hoping we don't need to pull the trans...

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Darter6]

Hoping we don't need to pull the trans...

It sounds like valve body related.At first I was going to say re-adjust the bands but you did that already thinking that the intermediate band is too tight.
May need to remove the valve body take it apart and clean.

 

[Dad's 64]

Thanks @Darter6 . @dvw any thoughts on this one?

 

[Darter6]

I mentioned band adjustment. I switched out a manual valve body and governor for a stock setup.
and did the bands tighter than spec.72 inch pounds back off 2 turns on both intermediate and low/reverse/Noticed something not right.
Went back in and did another 1/2 turn out on low band. Just my thought. I would re check the intermediate adjustment first. External no mess.
Doubt it will help . I say something stuck in the valve body .

 

[Rebelrouser]

Pressure gauge is your friend, hook one up and see if you get any oil pressure in the 3rd gear circuit, when shifting into 2nd if you do then valvebody is most likely the cause.

 

[dvw]

Being its a push button my bet is the shift cable is either adjusted wrong. Or the neutral safety switch is contacting the rooster comb. On a 1/2 shift the only action that occurs (with a T/A valve body) is the KD band applies and the low roller overruns. If the low roller was damaged the problem would occur in 3rd as well. The only way 2nd gear can tie up with a T/A valve body? The forward clutch has to be applied in 2nd which it shouldn't. I've seen this happen when the manual valve is slightly off. I would pull the pan and check for switch interference. It should have the metal plunger, not the white plastic style which is longer. If that's good take a small adjustable mirror and look down at the rooster comb and the detent ball. It's not as hard as you think. Make sure the ball is centered in the comb in 2nd.. when adjusted shift from 3 to 2, and from 1 to 2 to make sure there isn't an issue. There are 2 diffent cable ends for shift cables, 62-64 and 65. The wrong type will be sloppy.
Doug

 

[Dad's 64]

Thanks for the insights, everyone. @dvw I had the pan off when I adjusted the shifter, and the rooster only touched the NSS when it was in neutral (used that to help verify adjustment). BTW the NSS is the style seen in the center of the picture below, but it's been in there forever. I thought we nailed the adjustment but I'll take the pan down again and check the detent ball.

 

[RemCharger]

More of an unrelated question, but was the Input shaft converted to 67 up fine spline?

 

[dvw]

It should have the rooster comb and switch on the far left if its a push button shifter.
Doug

 

[Dad's 64]

One other update...Dad just told me the transmission is a '65, which is why the rooster/NSS look like the center image above. Not sure if that affects anyone's thoughts.

 

[dvw]

The 64 floorshift/65 rooster comb, shift cable, manual valve, and safety switch are not correct for a push button trans. They need to be swapped for 62-64 push button parts. A 62-64 valve body will function correctly in a 65 trans using the push buttons. Take a good look. What style valve body does it have? 62-64 push button? A 65 converted to push button? Or a stock 65?
Doug

 

[Dad's 64]

I'm not sure of the origin of the trans, just that it started out as a '65 (he wanted the tailshaft that accommodates a standard U-joint). I also don't know how to identify the difference between a TA valve body for a 62-64 vs 65 (?) Is there an easy way to tell? This combination of hardware worked for 25+years so I'm assuming that everything is matched properly but I guess anything is possible.

 

[Sixpactogo]

You mentioned adding a deep pan. I'm wondering if you used the wrong extension and filter. I made that mistake when I tried a deep pan on my 65 Fury. It is not a push button but those transmissions have a different filter than the newer style torque flite's use. The older trans uses a filter with two holes and the newer ones only have one hole. Here is a pic of the older style filter with two holes. If you have the deep pan extension with one hole, that may be your issue. Mine didn't act the same as yours but mine wouldn't shift out of second gear under load. I couldn't find an extension that would work so I ended up going back to the stock pan with the correct filter.