440 Starter Replacement

[4404ME]

I just bought this Proform "Mopar" unit from summit. I actually like the way it sounds. Starts very quickly

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pro-440-415[/URLT

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I just bought this Proform "Mopar" unit from summit. I actually like the way it sounds. Starts very quickly

Proform Parts 440-415 Proform Mopar Licensed High-Torque Starters | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Proform Mopar Licensed High-Torque Starters with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Starters at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

Thanks for the heads-up! Are they built in the USA? Appreciate It!

 

[Curiousyellow71]

There are some bb headers that the factory 90s mini starter doesn't fit. But they fit in many applications. If you go that direction get a post relocation kit as well....like this:
Mopar Mini Starter Terminal Conversion/Relocation Kit *THE BEST, PLEASE READ!!* | eBay

 

[zombezoo]

http://

Thanks for the heads-up! Are they built in the USA? Appreciate It!

I'm not sure, I liked it was all new parts and bought it mostly for that. I looked around a little and it doesn't seem to say made in USA anywhere which makes me think it's not.
I have only been using it a few weeks but so far so good.

 

[GTXDAN]

Using Rck Ato as a reference the mini starter was first used in 1988 on D150s and continued in use through 2002 on 1500s. There are 2 different versions as far as power goes. Some are 1.0 KW and some are 1.4 KW, but will fit the same vehicles. If you look at the specs for the Delco starter they sell as p/n 3361722 it says it is a Denso starter.
I got one from the local pull a part to put on my 70 GTX as the Summit headers won't let you use a full size starter.

 

[RJRENTON]

They do? I don't know about a Dakota starter, but every Denso starter I have had apart for our cars had wound fields. Technically this is a DC motor. DC motors don't have stators. Stators are AC motor terminology. DC motors have an armature and a field, sometimes referred to as a field frame.

If the DC motor had permanent magnet fields (those do exist), I seriously doubt they would match the torque capable out of a series wound field like a conventional starter. That is the beauty of series wound motors - they give up rpm to generate torque when armature amps increase. Huge advantage if you are dealing with significant system voltage drop issues as we have in our old cars. I understand that there are PM starters in some new cars, but I don't think you can take that technology and put it in the old cars with great success. What would be the advantage? Maybe there is, and if so, you learn every day.......

Remember DC motor torque = K x PHI x Ia where PHI is magnetic field strength, Ia is armature current and K is a constant.

Your comments about DC series wound motors are exemplified in the old (relative) over head cranes. I learned DC crane control many years ago. The best control systems used the old Square D design, or sometimes AO Smith/ Clark scheme, and rarely Cutler-Hammer. The series wound hoist motors provided up to 250% (or more) locked rotor torque, but sacrificed speed. The control system connected the hoist drive as a series wound motor....armature, field coils, and interpole coils all connected in series and reconnected as a shunt motor, with field coils and interpol coils in parallel via the control logic, when in the lowering mode, with the motor acting as a DC generator, with the overhauling load providing the energy. And with no load, the series wound motor could 2x faster than normal. The traverse drives, bridge and trolley (and a second hoist drive, if used) were also series connected motors for maximum torque at low RPMs. Speeds and torque were regulated with resistors in series with the armature current.....very effective.
I believe the newer starter motors use permanent magnetics in place of the field windings, which results the all current available for the armature without any field coil losses....hence more torque developed at locked rotor conditions, as developed torque is directly proportional to armature amps. The old DC crane drives have largely supercedes with variable frequency AC motors or brushless DC motors, because of costs...........just a little side line information.......
BOB RENTON

 

[WileE]

There are alot of "new" Frankenstein starters out there so be careful! I think its 128000-1780??

 

[Mr. PNW]

Hello All!

The original starter in my ‘72 440 Runner needs to be replaced.. Some say go Mini, some say not.. wouldn’t mind going with a high-torque starter. What say you? Thanks!

So which mini starter did you go with? Parts #s
Did you need the connection adapter?

I need a new starter for my 68 Coronet with 383/4bbl/727.

My stock looking starter is just making a rapid clicking noise and every once in a while makes a very, very BRIEF turn over sound, then starts clicking again. Like it just doesn’t have the strength to turn the engine.

 

[Some Car Guy]

Ac delco brand off Amazon

So which mini starter did you go with? Parts #s
Did you need the connection adapter?

I need a new starter for my 68 Coronet with 383/4bbl/727.

My stock looking starter is just making a rapid clicking noise and every once in a while makes a very, very BRIEF turn over sound, then starts clicking again. Like it just doesn’t have the strength to turn the engine.

Ac delco brand off Amazon works for me.

 

[Mr. PNW]

Ac delco brand off Amazon

Ac delco brand off Amazon works for me.

Are those the ones that are made by Denso? Do you have the Amazon page?

My setup is stock. Did you need the adapter?

 

[RemCharger]

Basically whatever you get will be Mexico, or China if new. I just go to my supplier ( a large parts chain up here) and it'll usually be a Delco Remy reman. If it gives issues, can just hustle back for a new one the same day. I don't recall any needing warranty. I do starters and alternators often at my shop, mostly Mexico stuff.
Oh and make sure you have tried yours with a known GOOD battery

 

[Some Car Guy]

Are those the ones that are made by Denso? Do you have the Amazon page?

My setup is stock. Did you need the adapter?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007QBTUKW?ref=fed_asin_title

Yes, you need an adapter. Far as I know, they all need one or are being sold with one already installed for our old cars. I didn’t like that little deal, but wasted a bunch of time proving it was required. Simply no way around it on a 440.

About 20 years ago I put one in a 383 and thought I remembered using it without the adapter and going straight to the top, maybe the b block will clear it, I can’t say for sure though.

This is the one I used

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303833501832

 

[Black_Sheep]

I had no crank issues with the stock starter due to heat soak from the headers. A factory Mopar mini-starter from a local rebuilder cured the problem. I wouldn’t use anything but a mini-starter.

 

[zyzzyx]

In post #10 I said that Denso starters had permanent magnets. This was not true. Some do, and some don't.
Trying to figure out the applications now. Sorry!

 

[GTXDAN]

I have these 2 numbers for mini starters:
Delco 336-1722
Denso 2800144
I believe the Denso is listed as having more power than the Delco, if I remember correctly.

 

[Mr. PNW]

http://[URL][URL][URL][URL][URL][UR...w.amazon.com/dp/B007QBTUKW?ref=fed_asin_title

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Yes, you need an adapter. Far as I know, they all need one or are being sold with one already installed for our old cars. I didn’t like that little deal, but wasted a bunch of time proving it was required. Simply no way around it on a 440.

About 20 years ago I put one in a 383 and thought I remembered using it without the adapter and going straight to the top, maybe the b block will clear it, I can’t say for sure though.

This is the one I used

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303833501832

Thank you I have ordered both of these above. This starter came up as New.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007QBTUKW $89 ACDelco 88877195
ACDelco 88877195 ACDelco Starters | Summit Racing
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303833501832 $22

This Delco 336-1722 came up as remanufactured.

 

[65CopCar]

I didn't necessarily read the whole thread, but there are some distinct differences in some of the starters.

DODGE TRUCKS 3.9L, 5.2L, 5.9L 1991-1995 (incl Dakota) - 4.4 gear ratio, 1.4kw, 10 tooth

Various part numbers for this starter are:

ANDRE NIERMANN	14960
ARROWHEAD	ND9712809-781
ARROWHEAD	SND0088, 410-52033
BARSANCO	610-17466
CARGO	111764
CHRYSLER	53005984
DENSO FIRST TIME FIT	280-0136, 281-0109
DENSO REMAN	9712809-781
DENSO	128000-7810
DIXIE NEW	S-8357N
DIXIE	S-8357
DUBOIS	917466
J&N Electrical Products	410-52033
LESTER	17466
LUCAS ELECTRICAL EUROPE	LRS01396
MINNPAR	57-2791
NAPA POWER NEW	4N-6415
NAPA POWER PREMIUM PLUS	244-6415
NAPA POWER SUPREME	44-6415
NSA	STR-8003
PIC	190-365
REMY LIGHT DUTY NEW	99608
REMY LIGHT DUTY	17181
UNIPOINT	STR-8003
USA INDUSTRIES	S1337
WAI	2-1398-ND
WILSON NEW	91-29-5250, 91-29-5250N
WILSON	91-29-5250
WOOD AUTO	STR8003

Starter for Dodge Diplomat 5.2L 1988-1989 - somewhere around 3.8:1 reduction, 10 tooth - don't know the kw, but good chance its 1.4 kw also - has the capability to spin faster than the truck starter but with less torque so all bets are off - I don't use this in my performance vehicles - should be ok for a stockish setup


Various part numbers for this starter are:

ARROWHEAD	SND0194, 410-52267, ND128000-4960, ND128000-5270, ND128000-5280, ND9712809-528
CARGO	111764, 113100
CHRYSLER	4349144, 4379143, 4379144, 4379160, 5233662
DENSO	128000-4960, 128000-5270, 128000-5280, 128000-5670
DENSO REMAN	9712809-528
J&N Electrical Products	410-52267
LESTER	17084
MITSUBISHI MOTORS	MD017649
NSA	STR-8003
WAI	2-1383-ND

 

[Mr. PNW]

http://[URL]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007QBTUKW?ref=fed_asin_title

[/URL]

Yes, you need an adapter. Far as I know, they all need one or are being sold with one already installed for our old cars. I didn’t like that little deal, but wasted a bunch of time proving it was required. Simply no way around it on a 440.

About 20 years ago I put one in a 383 and thought I remembered using it without the adapter and going straight to the top, maybe the b block will clear it, I can’t say for sure though.

This is the one I used

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303833501832

In your first photo it looks like the gray gasket is larger than the shape of the face on the mini starter. Do I need a certain gasket also for my 383/auto?