Royal Purple vs Amsoil

My 65 has a new hemi in it that was for a Chrysler 300. I went to the dealer and asked what oil do they call for and that's what I use.

Hey-O said:

My 65 has a new hemi in it that was for a Chrysler 300. I went to the dealer and asked what oil do they call for and that's what I use.

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Not that! Anything but that!
Stop making sense!

Slap Stick said:

Not that! Anything but that!
Stop making sense!

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were you thinking....

You guys break me down....what a country!

I missed something. If the amsoil flows faster at low temperature, doesn't it just mean its less viscous (so the 5 part of the 5-30 is a little lower for the Amsoil than the Royal Purple?) It would be interesting to know if we are looking at something like 5 vs 5.5 or 5 vs 10 or 20? And which one actually met spec. The narrator made a blanket statement that the one that flowed fastest was better because it would reach parts faster. But I don't know whether that is actually true in all cases. Does anyone know who can tell us?

Slap Stick said:

SOME RP oils aren't true synthetics. Their group IV and V are.
I can tell you this about RP synthetic. You can run it in an engine power by straight alcohol in which the carb must be jetted almost 3x richer than gas. This washes down cylinder walls and fills oil pans/tanks with alcohol.
A non syn oil will be diluted by the alcohol. The RP synthetic stays separated. At the end of racing you can drain the oil tank into A metal pan and then burn off the alcohol. The oil can then be poured back into the engine.
If they used a group III oil vs Amsoil it was not a fair test.
Amsoil has been called out for this kind of testing in the past.

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Good info there. I hope you told him in the comments section of the video.

I think Amsoil and Redline are polyalphaolefin or PAO oils which flow better at cold temperatures and have a higher viscosity index than most other oils.
I'm not sure what Royal Purple uses as base stock oil.

Jcharger said:

I missed something. If the amsoil flows faster at low temperature, doesn't it just mean its less viscous (so the 5 part of the 5-30 is a little lower for the Amsoil than the Royal Purple?) It would be interesting to know if we are looking at something like 5 vs 5.5 or 5 vs 10 or 20? And which one actually met spec. The narrator made a blanket statement that the one that flowed fastest was better because it would reach parts faster. But I don't know whether that is actually true in all cases. Does anyone know who can tell us?

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Better start up protection when much wear occurs.

I got that, but I'm still missing something. I assume a range of weights are specified because if it is too runny it drips off parts and doesn't cushion them well, and too viscous it locks up. What I couldn't tell was whether the difference was between 4.6W30 and 5.4W30 or if there was a real problem. I wish he would have explained this and which of the oils was closer to its specified viscosity.

themechanic said:

The instrument was called the tapered bearing simulator viscometer. The technique was accepted by ASTM as test method D4683 for use at 150 degrees C (and more recently as D6616 for use at 100 degrees C). This critical bench test of engine oil quality became known as high temperature, high shear rate (HTHS) viscosity. Minimum limits were then imposed for various grades in the SAE viscosity classification system.

Interestingly, it was later shown that this instrument was unique and basically absolute in providing measures of both shearing torque or shear stress and shear rate while operating. It is the only known viscometer capable of doing this.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30329/engine-oil-quality

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I am an longtime Amsoil user and will have no problem using Amsoil 10W-30 Z-Rod in my Roadrunner. However, while home grown DIY oil testing is interesting to look at, it's usefulness doesn't translate much beyond entertainment value.

Here's why... (Spoiler, video at bottom of post)

1) The bearing tester:

The closest industry standardized test to the bearing tester used in the video is the Falex Timken Test Machine found in the link HERE

Notice the Falex Timken Test Machine has controlled rate test load and oil flow circulation system with temp control. The home made DIY tester seen in the video is nowhere near that advanced.

The Falex Timken Test Machine tests for ASTM D2782 - Standard Test Method for Measurement of Extreme-Pressure Properties of Lubricating Fluids (Timken Method),

- and for -

ASTM D2509 - Standard Test Method for Measurement of Load-Carrying Capacity of Lubricating Grease (Timken Method) See also PDF HERE

ASTM D2782 specifies the fluid be heated to 40 degrees C. Again, not done in the video. In fact, Project Farm states in the video, "Since I don't have the specialized test equipment..." Yep, highly evident. Here is the ASTM D2782 test standard in this link HERE

Today, for engine wear testing, ILSAC GF-5 requirements uses an actual engine ran on a test stand. Afterwards, the engine is torn down and inspected for compliance. See data below and link HERE

2.a) Wear and Oil Thickening: ASTM Sequence IIIG Test, ASTM D7320

2.b) Wear, Sludge, and Varnish Test: Sequence VG, ASTM D6593

2.c) Valvetrain Wear: Sequence IVA, ASTM D6891

2.d) Bearing Corrosion: Sequence VIII, ASTM D6709

3) The Cold Flow Test:

The industry standardized tests for engine oil cold flow are published by the oil manufactures via Product Data Sheets (PDS). So we don't need DIY testing when we have the actual published data.

In the Product Data Sheets (PDS), look for:

ASTM D5293 - Standard Test Method for Apparent Viscosity of Engine Oils and Base Stocks Between -10 °C and -35 °C Using Cold-Cranking Simulator (CCS Viscosity)

- And -

ASTM D97 - Pour Point

3) Oil Heat/boil-off test

As Project Farm states, the industry standard for this test is NOACK Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D5800)

That is correct but once again many manufactures publish this data. Some don't. When they don't, one has to wonder what they are hiding. In either case, I'd trust the published numbers over the DIY test numbers.

Finally, here is Amsoil's position on the "One Armed Bandit" test apparatus:

Check out the 540ratblog for testing of many various motor oils. Royal Purple is way down the list while Amsoil is among the top brands. Valvoline VR-1 beat Royal Purple by quite a bit.

I put Royal Purple in the ‘65 and have had no issues with it. The 540 blog covers this with a good explanation as to why you can run the lower quality oils with no problems in normal situations.

It’s a long dry read but very informative.

My next oil change will be to another brand.

BBishere2 said:

Check out the 540ratblog for testing of many various motor oils. Royal Purple is way down the list while Amsoil is among the top brands. Valvoline VR-1 beat Royal Purple by quite a bit.

I put Royal Purple in the ‘65 and have had no issues with it. The 540 blog covers this with a good explanation as to why you can run the lower quality oils with no problems in normal situations.

It’s a long dry read but very informative.

My next oil change will be to another brand.

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I posted 540 Ratblog on here or FABO a while ago. Some people claimed that he was a quack. Everyone has their own recipe. I put synthetic in, never approach the recommended drain intervals, change the filter halfway through (around 2 thousand miles) and top it off. I sleep well at night.

Blackstone labs has said they really see no discernable difference between oil brands.
(Google it that's how I saw it) As long as you use the right viscosity for the application and change it at proper intervals you won't have any problems.
Last I looked RP group IV and V oils use PAO base stocks.

This comes down to what you want to use. Once you have a certain quality the rest is a personal choice. At some point this turns into a sales pitch. It's a big business and much to gain or lose. IMO

Hey-O said:

This comes down to what you want to use. Once you have a certain quality the rest is a personal choice. At some point this turns into a sales pitch. It's a big business and much to gain or lose. IMO

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There ya go again. Yer making too much sense.
Here's an first hand experience.
When a friend was still alive he raced dirt late model and modifieds all running alcohol. We had a Valvoline sponsorship. Problem was the Valvoline synthetic didn't like the alcohol. Their reps caame out and analyzed the oil and the only answer they had was run their dino oil.
So we ended up getting a good deal on Red Line. Worked great. That deal ran out so we went with RP. That deal ran its course so we got a deal with Gibbs. What a disaster. Get the engine broken in and as soon as the Gibbs oil went in the engine would let go on then first night. Gibbs said there was a problem with the oil (they were blowing their own engines).
We finally just used Rotella and all was well. Had zero problems and after the season all we did was freshen the innards.
Was the RL and RP any better than Rotella? We will never know.
One thing we did know. The Rotella was a lot cheaper!
Blasted auto spell!

Thanks for all the posts. I am still learning a lot about oil. I am using Brad Penn now called Penn Grade 10W40. It's the best affordable oil I can get.

I have read that after the cam is broken in you can run synthetic oil without high levels of ZDDP and without additives for street applications. I have also heard that some who have done this have wiped a cam lobe.

What are your thoughts on using oil with lower ZDDP levels?

themechanic said:

Thanks for all the posts. I am still learning a lot about oil. I am using Brad Penn now called Penn Grade 10W40. It's the best affordable oil I can get.

I have read that after the cam is broken in you can run synthetic oil without high levels of ZDDP and without additives for street applications. I have also heard that some who have done this have wiped a cam lobe.

What are your thoughts on using oil with lower ZDDP levels?

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Flat Tappet cam?

1967coronet440 said:

Flat Tappet cam?

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Yes.

Not worth the risk to find out in my opinion, run something like AMSOIL z Rod or Valvoline vr1 with the added zinc.

1967coronet440 said:

Not worth the risk to find out in my opinion, run something like AMSOIL z Rod or Valvoline vr1 with the added zinc.

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That's why I use Penn Grade.