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Different Car since move out West, dies after 20 miles or so...

mrmolding

mrmolding

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I've got a 68 Road Runner with a NOM 70 440HP with about 3K on a rebuild done by the last owner. It's a fairly stock engine but it was a 383 AC car, so the last owner put a Classic Air system on it.
Since the move to California from Virginia a year ago, the car ran fairly hot, so I got the radiator re-cored, put a new Flowkooler water pump, Tony's parts clutch fan, and Flowkooler/Robertshaw 180 thermostat. So, now it never overheats and will run happily in the 180 to 200 range on aftermarket gauge.
About a month ago we were driving through an up and down hilly neighborhood and going down a hill it just died. Would not start and I had to get it towed back home. I noticed that PCV line to the carb was not tight, so I tightened it and it's been out on a few rides with no problem.
But yesterday we decided to turn on the Classic Air system that I hadn't run since VA and it got cold and ran for about 15 minutes. We stopped for about 15 minutes, started it back up and went another 10 miles and it started to heat up and seemed to shudder a little. So I turned off AC and it seemed happier. About 5 miles from house I headed up one of the many large hills near the mountains and got on it a little in 3rd gear. As I started coming down the other side, it just sounded like a dying lawnmower or something and died. I coasted into a parking lot and it wouldn't start. So, I waited for 30 minutes and it started but would die If I didn't keep the revs up, but made it home.
One thing I noticed is the Alternator was about halfway in the charge part of the gauge.

So it seems like I have two problems. Alternator/Voltage regulator and Fuel problem.
Do I need a higher amp alternator? I think there is a 65 on there now.
Should I run a vapor return line? EFI?
Thanks!
 
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First thing I would do is get that fuel filter off of the manifold, and put it down lower toward the fuel pump and in front of the motor, that is if you are using a mechanical. Having that on the manifold, you fuel could be getting too hot, boiling, evaporating causing stalling. If you are going up and down hills, maybe have a issue with fuel slosh in the carb bowls, and could be coming out of the venturies flooding the car, if its a holly, could also be sticking floats causing flooding.

Regarding the alternator, makes sure you have good grounds all around on your car, any local shop/parts store should be able to load test it for you.
 
idrivemopar said:
First thing I would do is get that fuel filter off of the manifold, and put it down lower toward the fuel pump and in front of the motor, that is if you are using a mechanical. Having that on the manifold, you fuel could be getting too hot, boiling, evaporating causing stalling. If you are going up and down hills, maybe have a issue with fuel slosh in the carb bowls, and could be coming out of the venturies flooding the car, if its a holly, could also be sticking floats causing flooding.

Regarding the alternator, makes sure you have good grounds all around on your car, any local shop/parts store should be able to load test it for you.
Click to expand...
It's mechanical and an Edelbrock 850 I think. Thanks!
 
May have 2 problems, Fuel may be trying to vapor lock do to the heat and crap fuel. Coasting down hill even lowers the fuel pressure more.
Try adding some fuel line insulation cover / wrap , the filter also {make sure its clear}
carter and eddy both sell a insulation base gasket that will help.
You need to get a volt meter out and do some checking on your charge system while running and a load is on it, turn on lights & ac. Just trace it out, voltage reg , relay, grounds , alternator , battery ect
 
What's the altitude your at now compared to VA? Mine ran like crap after moving to 5000' from basically sea level. Good Luck
 
1967coronet said:
May have 2 problems, Fuel may be trying to vapor lock do to the heat and crap fuel. Coasting down hill even lowers the fuel pressure more.
Try adding some fuel line insulation cover / wrap , the filter also {make sure its clear}
carter and eddy both sell a insulation base gasket that will help.
You need to get a volt meter out and do some checking on your charge system while running and a load is on it, turn on lights & ac. Just trace it out, voltage reg , relay, grounds , alternator , battery ect
Click to expand...
So there is wrap from the fuel pump to the fuel filter, and I just realized that it is hose and not metal from the pump! Wow! I knew that it was wrapped, just not a hose. It was so turn-key in VA I didn't dig into it that much due to moving out here. My multimeter is trashed, so I'll go get one. But I think the factory AC cars needed a 65 amp alternator (I could be wrong on that), I wonder if the Class Auto Air system needs one stronger.
 
69a100 said:
What's the altitude your at now compared to VA? Mine ran like crap after moving to 5000' from basically sea level. Good Luck
Click to expand...
So I left 361' and I'm now in 1201' elevation. In VA there was one or two big hills and that was it. Here it is like a roller coaster just going to a grocery store.
 
Weather can be really nice with low humidity like San Jose. Or, really suck with heat and elevation. California is a big place. What have you got? Where?
 
Dennis H said:
Weather can be really nice with low humidity like San Jose. Or, really suck with heat and elevation. California is a big place. What have you got? Where?
Click to expand...
So I'm north of LA near foothills. I just looked on a past weather site and it was about 84 and 21% humidity when this happened on both days.
 
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Elevation a factor? EFI works good for me. Pro Flo 4 Edelbrock. Do you have a thermal fan? They can be hard to diagnose if not functioning. Spin freely cold, not hot. Heat soak? Fuel could be different too. 91 and ethanol laced in California.
 
Dennis H said:
Elevation a factor? EFI works good for me. Pro Flo 4 Edelbrock. Do you have a thermal fan? They can be hard to diagnose if not functioning. Spin freely cold, not hot. Heat soak? Fuel could be different too. 91 and ethanol laced in California.
Click to expand...
Yeah, thermal fan is Tony's parts repro and works great. I'm thinking the responses I'm getting and talking to a resto-shop friend tells me that it's the heat soak and ethanol. I think I'll try a stock 70 440 vapor separator after I re-route fuel lines since that only needs a new sending unit and line. After that, I'll try EFI.
 
Dennis H said:
Elevation a factor? EFI works good for me. Pro Flo 4 Edelbrock. Do you have a thermal fan? They can be hard to diagnose if not functioning. Spin freely cold, not hot. Heat soak? Fuel could be different too. 91 and ethanol laced in California.
Click to expand...
So I just searched the forums to see if anyone had installed a Pro Flo system and found your build thread. I might just go this route as well! Thanks for the help!
 
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EFI may be your best fix as the ethanol rate may be increasing causing more issues. You can try re-routing lines, putting the vapor separator in, change the intake gasket/pan to one that is blocked on the heat riser crossover, carb heat shield etc but you may still have to bite the bullet.
 
ckessel said:
EFI may be your best fix as the ethanol rate may be increasing causing more issues. You can try re-routing lines, putting the vapor separator in, change the intake gasket/pan to one that is blocked on the heat riser crossover, carb heat shield etc but you may still have to bite the bullet.
Click to expand...
Thanks! So prior to moving I was interested in putting in the Holley Sniper and got an older Direction Connection Single Plane intake as a first step so I'm already invested in EFI a little. I know not a pure EFI direct injection like Pro Flow, but is the Sniper going to be a good as a candidate?
 
Andy F has been working with that system with great results. One of the fellow b members had checked the boiling temp of the Cali fuel last year and it boiled at 150*. Your under hood temps are in the 200+ range. Bad combo.
 
ckessel said:
Andy F has been working with that system with great results. One of the fellow b members had checked the boiling temp of the Cali fuel last year and it boiled at 150*. Your under hood temps are in the 200+ range. Bad combo.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I just love the look of the old DC parts, sounds like EFI is coming soon with a Sniper. Thanks!
 
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I to am in so cal, had to insulate everything to lower fuel temp in engine bay. Reroute fuel line insulate fuel line, heat shield, thermo spacer, and put insulation on bottom of air cleaner with aluminum shells. Here are some pics of what I did . Works very well.
 
CA caused a lot of the same issues with my X as well. Ultimately I got it working fine but not until running a return fuel line with an electric fuel pump (six pack) as I wasn’t getting enough fuel and the heat soak made it worse. Also put in a 100 amp alternator (which I doubt I needed). I live in the LA area as well but pretty much at sea level. I think the shitty gas we get out here caused part of the problem too. Heat resistant Promaster mini starter also helped as the headers wrap around the starter on a 440. Bottom line no problems since and have driven the car up to The Valley and back a few times since. Good luck!
 
GetX'd said:
CA caused a lot of the same issues with my X as well. Ultimately I got it working fine but not until running a return fuel line with an electric fuel pump (six pack) as I wasn’t getting enough fuel and the heat soak made it worse. Also put in a 100 amp alternator (which I doubt I needed). I live in the LA area as well but pretty much at sea level. I think the shitty gas we get out here caused part of the problem too. Heat resistant Promaster mini starter also helped as the headers wrap around the starter on a 440. Bottom line no problems since and have driven the car up to The Valley and back a few times since. Good luck!
Click to expand...

I don't have any issues driving my 440 Coronet in the hills around the Bay Area but I have a monster aluminum radiator installed by the PO with a couple of giant electric fans, so I've never seen the temp gauge creep past 175... I'm sure I'd have issues with stock cooling.
 
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