The Hemis weren't readily available in the beginning in '64, as Ski and 33 IMP said. The cracked blocks at Daytona were replaced by one of the engineers driving a new truck load down to Daytona from Detroit at the 11th hour.
64 non-Hemi 426 "NASCAR" engines
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j-c-c-62
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I am a big believer in stress relieving blocks. 100,000 miles normal use is one way, Cyro is another and HF vibratory is another.
I have used all three. I never felt it prevented catastrophic failures, as that relates to IMO an inadequate design, a flaw while casting, or overload while in use.
However as rushed as the hemi was, and as "easy" the fix was, I can't believe mopar put all their eggs in the stress relieving quick fix column on a race so image costly.
I have used all three. I never felt it prevented catastrophic failures, as that relates to IMO an inadequate design, a flaw while casting, or overload while in use.
However as rushed as the hemi was, and as "easy" the fix was, I can't believe mopar put all their eggs in the stress relieving quick fix column on a race so image costly.
j-c-c-62
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That is a reasonable bet. But the all of the 8 losing mopars in 1963, the best finishing car was RP in 6th, why would any of the 12 Mopars in 1964 at the first race Daytona 500 choose a Stage 3 proven loser when the Hemi cars were running circles around everyone else. I would bet at least 8 of the 12 Mopars in the 500 had Hemi's. They would not have gotten the driving talent they got with a Stage 3 motor. I see can't see any apparent advantage of a RB wedge over a Hemi on a short track.
The running joke at the 64 Daytona 500 was the drivers all wanted a Le Mans start, so they could all foot race to get in a Hemi race car.
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Yeah, I'm talking on the Street...
We ALL KNOW the 421 dominated Nascar in 62-63 and won the Pikes Peak Hill Climb etc...yeah, lightweights were in 63. (Swiss Cheese) Some 62s had the aluminum bumpers etc...I don't know. I have heard it go both ways...
I wish I had a 62 SD...hell I missed out on a 74 Trans Am SD in 94 because I didn't know what it was...
I'd love to own a Super Duty...62 especially...I'd even take a a 389 Trophy in a Cat...
I just sold this year and last year three 63 B-bodies...one was a 300 car..straight 6...was going to put my Maxie Clone in it...but things have changed due to Family med issues.
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Yeah, that is (was) the point...Heck...the 440 Six Pack properly tuned in street version gave some Hemi Guys fits...
But yeah, they just were not that common back in that era...and I'm betting the BEST NHRA and NASCAR team (s) got what they had...back then.
Gosh, imagine a 426 wedge w/ 13.5 to 1 compression?
dvw
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The Pontiac head wasn't superior at the time. For sure the block lifter bores were weaker. So why did they win? Aero, cheater cubes? Certainly a SD Pontiac head didn't match a Max Wedge head. Neither did a FE or a 409. So why were the the Max Wedges slower?
Doug
Doug
33 IMP
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I think a hi-riser 427 Ford head would be comparable to a max.
In 62, Pontiac had a 421, Ford was a 406, Chevy a 409 (weak!) and Mopar a 413.
In 63, Pontiac had the smallest displacement of the bunch, and still won. I'm not sure why.
Maybe..... better drivers? Or better teams?
33 IMP
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[QUOTE="j-c-c-62, post: I can't see any apparent advantage of a RB wedge over a Hemi on a short track
Maybe off the short track turns, more low-end torque, just like in a street car comparison of a wedge and hemi. By the time the rpm of the hemi starts to overcome the torque advantage, it's time to hit the brakes for the next corner. I'm not saying it happened like that, I am saying it's a possibility.
Maybe off the short track turns, more low-end torque, just like in a street car comparison of a wedge and hemi. By the time the rpm of the hemi starts to overcome the torque advantage, it's time to hit the brakes for the next corner. I'm not saying it happened like that, I am saying it's a possibility.
dodgeboy440
BOHNALITE CHRYSLER HEMI PROTOTYPE 1951
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Good Question!
Was it aerodynamic?
Was it Tires ?
Was It Hutzpah???
OR
Could it be just a learning curve , most of these combos were NEW Tech For The time period . The Engineers At The OEM’s were
Burning the Midnite Oil as the Ol Phrase Goes Attempting To Coax Mo-Powahhhhh
Out Of What They Had To Work With …….
Remember Chrysler 300’s Goin 130MPH
On The Florida Sand Raceways In The Late 50’s With The Early HEMIS !
Interesting READ , About TOM HOOVER
& RAMCHARGERS…..It’s History & Will Give You further insight into the MoPar Engines We All Enjoy . Happy Max Wedgie 2 U!
MoPar2Ya!
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Don McKellar and his CAMs...my Pontiac History teacher taught me a lot. ****Must we forget?
****Corporate GM January 12th 1963?
General Motors demanded that any intermediate size car was prohibited from having any engine with a displacement of 400 CI or larger.
(Except for the Corvette...L88s, L72s etc)
This BAN was in existence until 1970
So, Heads and Cam is how they were "somewhat" competitive but yeah, you are correct...only so much you could do.
I had to laugh at a Beach Boys song...or some song..Ronnie and the Daytonas "Lil GTO"?
The song talks about the 64 GTO beating a 62 "413" Super Stocker car....Yeah right!
Thanks for the great topic and posts...The Hemis was quite scarce back then.
I have one of the last 426 Hemis made in my possession. May 1969. No Hemi was made after May 1969.
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1-19-1970 cast date
chooch
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I honestly would not put a lot of faith into the advertised HP rating for the max wedges or much any other chrysler motor. My motor in the two photos above is a factory Hi comp motor 13.5-1 built to factory specs with all original or NOS parts including the cam & pistons with the only variation being 30+ with just a nascar 4 barrel intake & holley 750 keeping it simple since we where just breaking it in did at 4700 rpm 421.9hp & 474.3tq Which I'm sure that would have increased significantly with the crossram & dual carters plus another 1500-2k which I had no desire to go there. I couldn't even imagine what a race prepped nascar motor would have done..
chooch
Well-Known Member
I think you mean no street hemi was cast after May 69 you could still buy over the counters, here's a couple I have laying around.Don McKellar and his CAMs...my Pontiac History teacher taught me a lot. ****Must we forget?
****Corporate GM January 12th 1963?
General Motors demanded that any intermediate size car was prohibited from having any engine with a displacement of 400 CI or larger.
(Except for the Corvette...L88s, L72s etc)
This BAN was in existence until 1970
So, Heads and Cam is how they were "somewhat" competitive but yeah, you are correct...only so much you could do.
I had to laugh at a Beach Boys song...or some song..Ronnie and the Daytonas "Lil GTO"?
The song talks about the 64 GTO beating a 62 "413" Super Stocker car....Yeah right!
Thanks for the great topic and posts...The Hemis was quite scarce back then.
I have one of the last 426 Hemis made in my possession. May 1969. No Hemi was made after May 1969.
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I stand corrected...Bob Mazolinni told me none after May 69...or from a book...not certain
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I have
that Book..."The Ramchargers". Great read
j-c-c-62
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I agree. I find it hard to believe going from 11:1 CR to 13.5? only gains 10Hp. in the Stage 3 426.
I also question the earlier claim in another reply earlier the Stage 3 was a 'torquery" motor at the short tracks more than the Hemi, in the lower rpms.
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SuperK401
Member
They actually sent them down in individual vehicles in case one broke down the others would get through.
j-c-c-62
Well-Known Member
Lots of interesting antidotes about how Mopar upgraded their failing hemi blocks at the last minute prior to Nascar season opening Daytona race in 64.
So, were these sent directly to the track fully machined to be assembled at the track garages, or to the individual team's home shops?
Where they sent independently as each was machined at the factory to save time?
Understand, Mopar had the top 7 starting positions for the 500, mostly determined by two 40 lap qualifying races 2 days prior to the 500, so they had their Hemi issues sorted out prior to the race. It is rumored the Mopar teams were instructed to sandbag a bit in the qualifier's, to stay under the radar with the ultimate Hemi performance
One of my personal favorite pics.
Diodedog
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NHRA currently has both the low and high comp 63 Maxes rated at 409. After questioning the power advantage to someone who had done a lot of homework on it I was told maybe 8 HP if you run C-25 and have everything perfect, I decided to stay with the low comp with my new shortblock.
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