• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Another 727 kickdown question!

2quick

2quick

Well-Known Member
Local time
1:41 PM
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
1,214
Location
New Jersey
On my new duster the car came with a 727 and a Lokar kick down cable. I’ve done the adjustment:
1.Wide open throttle, trans lever all the way back.
2. Fully closed throttle, trans lever all the way forward.
The lever and carb bracket ratio is correct and works out in both directions. The issue is the kickdown lever itself seems to have about 3/4” of cable travel (meaning the lever is moving at the same time) before I feel even the slightest amount of tension. Call it dead space between lever fully closed and when I seems like it would have any affect on shift point etc. if I take up the dead space (moving the lever rearward and taking slack out the cable) there is not enough stroke to open the throttle fully. So the question how much dead space does a normal 727 have from fully forward till it applies internally to the throttle valve? I’m getting very early shifts that do not get higher with anything but WOT throttle input. All my other cars have RMVB’s and I’ve never needed to deal with this before. I also don’t want to smoke the trans driving with very little line pressure at part throttle.
Thanks in advance.
 
The lever should just be touching the end of the TV valve at idle. Many times if using an aftermarket linkage or cable I will drop the pan and watch the valve work when somebody presses the pedal. If you disconnect the cable you should be able to feel when it touches the TV valve when moving by hand.
 
The first portion of the throttle shaft cams movement isn't even close to touching the throttle valve itself. On the bottom of the throttle shaft there is a cam. When the shaft rotates far enough the cam will depress the throttle valve. That's why you don't feel any resistance during initial movement.
Doug
 
So basically I would be cutting the total throw of the TV lever by a little less then half from where I feel the internal dead spot starts to take up. That gives me very little throw on the throttle side. If I take up the slack I get no where near full throttle before the TV lever bottoms out full open. The cable point is as high as it can go already and it uses the Lokar TV lever. I would need to reduce throw! The first picture is at rest with the TV lever where it returns to forward position. That is also full throttle, fully rearward on the TV lever. The second pic is how much slack is in it while very lightly pulling the cable at rest. There is a .390 difference.

IMG_0702.jpeg


IMG_0703.jpeg
 
Last edited:
I think the cam adjustment on the valve body is way off. You should be able to put a 1/4" drill bit between the cam and the end of the throttle valve in the valve body.
 
There will always be an area in the travel that's does nothing. Even with the factory linkage. I've never seen a cam adjustment that was off by much. Unless someone was messing with it. Just a heads up. Or if it had a incompatible throttle shaft. There are shafts that have the cam 180 degrees off from each other depending on year. It wouldn't function at all if that were the case here.
Doug
 
Post #7 nailed it & the problem can be seen in post #5. There is a ratio of throttle movement-to-lever movement that changes with different brand/size carbs. That, in turn, changes how far & how much the KD lever moves. A carb with bigger primaries needs less throttle opening than a smaller one. So upshifts happen at lower rpms. Also distance from the throttle shaft to where the throttle linkage connects to the throttle lever affects the ratio. That is why Chrys had different length levers etc to get the ratios correct.
 
on my car with 727 and QuickFuel 735, I'm running the Bouchillon dual cable setup with separate throttle and trans kickdown. I had to mess with the trans cable adjustment for a long time to get it to kick down at part throttle. At first it would only kick down at WOT, then I finally pulled the cable enough to partially engage the spring resistance and finally there was the partial kickdown. It seems to drive well now and I hope I have it set correctly without risking any damage to the trans/valve body.

I know the Bouchillon is a bit different than the Lokar cable, but just thought I'd share for info.
 
I spoke with my trans guy (Sean at Dynamic Converters) he thinks someone may installed a **** kit at some point and I guess on some kits they tell you to grind the cam or the rod maybe, not even sure I’ve never seen this before, but maybe it was ground to much. He wants me to pull the pan and check.
 
2quick said:
I spoke with my trans guy (Sean at Dynamic Converters) he thinks someone may installed a **** kit at some point and I guess on some kits they tell you to grind the cam or the rod maybe, not even sure I’ve never seen this before, but maybe it was ground to much. He wants me to pull the pan and check.
Click to expand...
With a Transgo TF-2 you are instructed to shorten the throttle pressure valve to a specified dimension.
Mike
 
Before Doug gave me the basic figure out, how to install a shift kit, the transmission guy said my 727 did not down shift because I was wearing sandals. Said I needed boots.
 
I agree that makes sense. But in that situation there is not enough total throw to get full throttle before the TV arm bottoms all the way back. And it’s not even close. Adjusting the cable to idle at the point it’s about to make contact with the TV piston cuts the total throw by half. With that set up, full throttle is almost 7/16” away. It needs a shorter stroke. I have it on the closest hole on the carb. I guess I can try extending the TV arm longer to reduce the throw. So if I understand it correctly shorting the distance on the carb from the cable attachment point to the throttle shaft will reduce throw (can’t do that) so lengthens the TV arm will also reduce total throw?
 
Last edited:
RemCharger said:
Push the lever until it makes contact. That's where it should be at idle on the carb.
Click to expand...
With a factory linkage and adjustment that cam will be right where it is shown in post #13 at idle. Setting against the stop bolt. This is why there is a spring holding the linkage against the carb pin. When that spring is missing shifts an be late at part and throttle.
Doug
 
Last edited:
Well I don’t know if is going to better but I lengthened the TV arm so at full throttle it’s all the way back and at idle it barely touches the piston. What’s the worst that can happen? If it shifts later at part throttle and downshift at all I be good with it. Cause with a 4000 stall converter, it needs more rpm to let the converter couple at part throttle. The rpm is there anyway it’s just trading converter slip for actual RPM. Less load less slip.
 
2quick said:
Well I don’t know if is going to better but I lengthened the TV arm so at full throttle it’s all the way back and at idle it barely touches the piston. What’s the worst that can happen? If it shifts later at part throttle and downshift at all I be good with it. Cause with a 4000 stall converter, it needs more rpm to let the converter couple at part throttle.
Click to expand...
Exactly. It's always in the lever length. If it was all factory, it'd be fine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

diesel_lv
727 Kickdown lever clarification
Replies
3
Views
197
RemCharger
RemCharger
Mopewbie
904 no kickdown question....
Replies
10
Views
268
Geoff 2
G
Armyvet25
727 trans kickdown
Replies
18
Views
2K
roadrunnerh
roadrunnerh
R
Correct kick down lokar style cable adjustment question
Replies
10
Views
721
Russmacman
R
MPFD203
1963 Polara Transmission Problems
Replies
14
Views
1K
Geff McCarthy
G
Back
Top