440 Starter Replacement

[4404ME]

Hello All!

The original starter in my ‘72 440 Runner needs to be replaced.. Some say go Mini, some say not.. wouldn’t mind going with a high-torque starter. What say you? Thanks!

 

[dadsbee]

If you don't care about originality or that "sound"... no question to move on to a mini "Dakota" starter.

 

[R413]

Stock starters work great, and the sound is a necessary part of the mopar experience!

If it is hard to start without a mini, then work on the tune up so it starts easy.

 

[Don Frelier]

I much prefer the 90s ram or Dakota starter.
It will turn over quicker and drain the battery less.
They also last pretty much forever.

 

[pnora]

Hello All!

The original starter in my ‘72 440 Runner needs to be replaced.. Some say go Mini, some say not.. wouldn’t mind going with a high-torque starter. What say you? Thanks!

Unless you have to have the original starter go with the mini and do not look back.

 

[Some Car Guy]

I just did mine. I scaled it back to back and found the mini is right around. Half a stock one. Some people say 1/3, but it’s not close to that.

The Highland Park Hummingbird sound is gone. Not sure if I’ll miss it enough to have fooled with another stocker. I have yet to drive the car with the mini.

Funny thing is, about 20 years ago I put one on another car and I really remember that one sounding much more like the old school one. It was definitely modern sounding, but this new one has a distinct modern only sound. Weird as I excepted same as last mini.

I’ll add that i tried and failed to find a date coded one and the local shop cost more than a new mini. I did find that I had to use one of the adapters to move the wires to the front, they are 15-25 bucks. I don’t think I did that with the 383 and headers car, seems like I sent the wires in on top through the headers and onto the studs, but this 440 with manifolds required it or maybe trimming on the adapter that comes with the starter. I tried no adapter at all and you can’t really do anything with the wire studs on top.

 

[moparedtn]

I much prefer the 90s ram or Dakota starter.
It will turn over quicker and drain the battery less.
They also last pretty much forever.

I can attest to this. The Dakota starter that came with Fred 13 years ago has been through 3 440's and countless
gas re-priming exercises after the car has sat a while and lost fuel in the carb.
Amazing unit. That rascal throws over the 440 like it's nothing and takes the abuse - and it's a reman!

 

[WileE]

What everyone ^^^ said.

 

[6PKRTSE]

Hard to even get an old style anymore. My local auto parts store told me the old school cores are getting hard to find. The last core I took in from my 440 New Yorker they gave me a late model style mini as it's replacement.
I offered the storage bin I have full (about 15) of old core starters for rebuilds and another storage bin full of alternators (about 20) .They didn't want them.

 

[zyzzyx]

The Dakota mini starters are made by Denso and they have permanent magnets in the stator
so they have alot more torque. Like everyone said, Don't look back

 

[#41]

I run minis on my two cars with headers because I don't like to torture myself. My three cars without headers run standard starters because I like the sound, I prefer originality, and I have a shelf full of them.

 

[Fran Blacker]

I Switched to Mini.

 

[WileE]

I Switch to Mini.

< " Good choice ! "

 

[4404ME]

The Dakota mini starters are made by Denso and they have permanent magnets in the stator
so they have alot more torque. Like everyone said, Don't look backView attachment 1849666View attachment 1849667View attachment 1849668View attachment 1849669

The Dakota mini starters are made by Denso and they have permanent magnets in the stator
so they have alot more torque. Like everyone said, Don't look backView attachment 1849666View attachment 1849667View attachment 1849668View attachment 1849669

Thanks Much for the reply! I’ll look into Denso.. Can you provide a Part number? I’d appreciate it! Thanks Again!

 

[4404ME]

To EVERYONE who took the time to respond, I appreciate the information! Thanks Much!

 

[zyzzyx]

There are alot of "new" Frankenstein starters out there so be careful! I think its 128000-1780??
Get a rebuilt or a used one from a Dakota.

 

[zombezoo]

I just bought this Proform "Mopar" unit from summit. I actually like the way it sounds. Starts very quickly

Proform Parts 440-415 Proform Mopar Licensed High-Torque Starters | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Proform Mopar Licensed High-Torque Starters with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Starters at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Some Car Guy]

I went with ac delco off Amazon. I think that was best price I found and all of them are made in china and rebadged best I can tell.

 

[65CopCar]

The Dakota mini starters are made by Denso and they have permanent magnets in the stator
so they have alot more torque. Like everyone said, Don't look backView attachment 1849666View attachment 1849667View attachment 1849668View attachment 1849669

They do? I don't know about a Dakota starter, but every Denso starter I have had apart for our cars had wound fields. Technically this is a DC motor. DC motors don't have stators. Stators are AC motor terminology. DC motors have an armature and a field, sometimes referred to as a field frame.

If the DC motor had permanent magnet fields (those do exist), I seriously doubt they would match the torque capable out of a series wound field like a conventional starter. That is the beauty of series wound motors - they give up rpm to generate torque when armature amps increase. Huge advantage if you are dealing with significant system voltage drop issues as we have in our old cars. I understand that there are PM starters in some new cars, but I don't think you can take that technology and put it in the old cars with great success. What would be the advantage? Maybe there is, and if so, you learn every day.......

Remember DC motor torque = K x PHI x Ia where PHI is magnetic field strength, Ia is armature current and K is a constant.

 

[zyzzyx]

So, an armature is a rotor because it rotates and a stator, weather it has field coils or magnets
is called a stator because it's stationary. More to come on which starters are permanent or wound!