64 non-Hemi 426 "NASCAR" engines

[dammstrate]

In the website https://over-drive-magazine.com/2023/11/19/1964-plymouth-mid-size-cars-fact-sheet/there are references to a 1964 426 "NASCAR" engine option, one with out "stage III" and the other with "NASCAR stage III". Assumption would be these are single four barrel version of the dual quad versions. Both listed 370hp at 4600rpm but different cam specs, so that is suspect. But then there is also listed a 415hp "super stockstage III", and a 425hp "superstock stage III". These two have the same specs, except for the HP difference. Seems fishy if all of these really existed. So far, I can find no other references to these wedge "NASCAR" engines. Anyone have any more info or something on the internet?

 

[super-bee_ski]

Well yeah,
I'm pretty certain these Wedge engines existed.

 

[dodgeboy440]

In the website https://over-drive-magazine.com/2023/11/19/1964-plymouth-mid-size-cars-fact-sheet/there are references to a 1964 426 "NASCAR" engine option, one with out "stage III" and the other with "NASCAR stage III". Assumption would be these are single four barrel version of the dual quad versions. Both listed 370hp at 4600rpm but different cam specs, so that is suspect. But then there is also listed a 415hp "super stockstage III", and a 425hp "superstock stage III". These two have the same specs, except for the HP difference. Seems fishy if all of these really existed. So far, I can find no other references to these wedge "NASCAR" engines. Anyone have any more info or something on the internet?

Well … well …. Them Good Ol Boys Runnin
Shine back InDa day did Not Advertise!
Neither Did All Them Track Warriors !!
Why Do You Think Info On Their Powerplant
Combos Is Nil & nun??

Do The Math ……

Is That Really You ?

 

[dvw]

Difference between 415hp and the 425hp is the compression ratio. 11.0-1 vs 13.5-1. Cam is also larger on the later (63 /64) engines with no change in hp rating. The single 4 barrel Max Wedge was never sold in a car. Those manifolds were for Nascar's single 4 barrel rule.
Doug

 

[Lefty71]

There were most certainly single four intakes with max wedge sized ports, designed for oval track (nascar) use. I have one....they were never on a production engine. They were sold over the counter at your chrysler dealership, as well as all others in the special parts program, at least until the gen2 hemi came out. I dont have a link, but i do remember seeing info regarding king richard and others running that intake in '64.

 

[Lefty71]

Seems fishy if all of these really existed.

Why?? All it takes is a few different cam grinds and other minor differences to make the same engine size make many different outputs. Im thinking thats what Dodgeboy is saying in post #3....there were special vehicle teams similar to Mooney & Moses at Ford....some of the Chrysler engineers had their own race teams too, with access to all manner of factory VooDoo.

 

[chooch]

I'd say they probably existed !!

 

[33 IMP]

The single four barrel Nascar 426 was not very competitive with the super duty 421, and the high riser 427. That's exactly why the gen 2 Hemi was developed.
The drag versions of the max were a different animal. Competitive power, in a lighter weight package.
The lightweight advantage on the strip means nothing on a Nascar super Speedway.
I'm sure there were 426 wedges in Nascar in 64, (and maybe USAC), probably run by privateers, low-buck teams, and short tracks. Probably leftover 63 engines

 

[33 IMP]

As bad as the modern reputation of the max crossram is, the single four version intake, down 30 horsepower or so, must have been a dog!

 

[j-c-c-62]

The single four barrel Nascar 426 was not very competitive with the super duty 421, and the high riser 427. That's exactly why the gen 2 Hemi was developed.
The drag versions of the max were a different animal. Competitive power, in a lighter weight package.
The lightweight advantage on the strip means nothing on a Nascar super Speedway.
I'm sure there were 426 wedges in Nascar in 64, (and maybe USAC), probably run by privateers, low-buck teams, and short tracks. Probably leftover 63 engines

Why would anybody race a 426 Stage III especially after the showing of the Hemi in the 1964 season opener Daytona 500 that was a complete Hemi blow out?
There weren't a lot (8) of Mopar teams in 63 running wedges (best Mopar finish in 500 was 6th by RP), and the ones that were all got Hemi's in 64, and then some.
Why would Chrysler even offer the Stage III Nascar version of the motor in 1964?

 

[Lefty71]

Why would Chrysler even offer the Stage III Nascar version of the motor in 1964?

I read the the first casting of hemi blocks were cracking badly, and they had to do some new casts right from the get-go. Maybe they didnt instantly gain the reputation for winning and reliability we all know today?

 

[j-c-c-62]

The casting problem was well known and reported. They supposedly flew into Daytona new upgraded blocks that placed 1,2, 3 & 5th at their first race of 1964 at Daytona 500. The Gen 2 Hemi had been in design and rushed development for an entire year, using as much as possible from the stage 3 engine, after losing so poorly at the 500 in 1963.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Difference between 415hp and the 425hp is the compression ratio. 11.0-1 vs 13.5-1. Cam is also larger on the later (63 /64) engines with no change in hp rating. The single 4 barrel Max Wedge was never sold in a car. Those manifolds were for Nascar's single 4 barrel rule.
Doug

That is correct! Great post!

 

[super-bee_ski]

Why would anybody race a 426 Stage III especially after the showing of the Hemi in the 1964 season opener Daytona 500 that was a complete Hemi blow out?
There weren't a lot (8) of Mopar teams in 63 running wedges (best Mopar finish in 500 was 6th by RP), and the ones that were all got Hemi's in 64, and then some.
Why would Chrysler even offer the Stage III Nascar version of the motor in 1964?

The 426 Maxies were already available and the 426 Hemi was new w/ bugs in the system. Availability was the reason as the 426 wedge was very potent

 

[super-bee_ski]

The single four barrel Nascar 426 was not very competitive with the super duty 421, and the high riser 427. That's exactly why the gen 2 Hemi was developed.
The drag versions of the max were a different animal. Competitive power, in a lighter weight package.
The lightweight advantage on the strip means nothing on a Nascar super Speedway.
I'm sure there were 426 wedges in Nascar in 64, (and maybe USAC), probably run by privateers, low-buck teams, and short tracks. Probably leftover 63 engines

I don't know where to go with this one...as I have a true love for the Pontiacs. I do know "on the street" the Mopars during the 62-63 years in the "B-body" 330s were much lighter than the Pontiac Catalinas.
Allegedly the Pontiac team came to Lyons in So Cal and boasted about the 421 SDs (Which I believe is the Holy Grail cars) and lost to the 330s with the Maxies...now, it's heresay.

 

[33 IMP]

I don't know where to go with this one...as I have a true love for the Pontiacs. I do know "on the street" the Mopars during the 62-63 years in the "B-body" 330s were much lighter than the Pontiac Catalinas.
Allegedly the Pontiac team came to Lyons in So Cal and boasted about the 421 SDs (Which I believe is the Holy Grail cars) and lost to the 330s with the Maxies...now, it's heresay.

The Fords and Pontiacs were stronger on the high banks in 63 than the single four maxwedges.
The max made a bit less hp in drag trim too, but they were hundreds of pounds lighter, and had the best auto trans, easier to hook up on rock hard slicks. That's why there were fiberglass Fords, and aluminum front "swiss cheese" catalinas and aluminum impalas.
There were lightweight ponchos, chevies and ford's in 62. In 63, Mopar brought out their own.
In 64, the lightweight galaxies weren't even in the same time zone as an aluminum hemi car, so they stuck their hi-riser 427 in a Fairlane. Badass car.
GM had already quit.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I don't know where to go with this one...as I have a true love for the Pontiacs. I do know "on the street" the Mopars during the 62-63 years in the "B-body" 330s were much lighter than the Pontiac Catalinas.
Allegedly the Pontiac team came to Lyons in So Cal and boasted about the 421 SDs (Which I believe is the Holy Grail cars) and lost to the 330s with the Maxies...now, it's heresay.

Nascar I believe had a min weight at that time, and total weight back then I suspect mattered less than weight distribution, meaning whose car was lighter meant little on the banked ovals. Car size because of aero did matter as they were discovering at that time. The Hemi was probably the heaviest engine at that time.

 

[j-c-c-62]

The 426 Maxies were already available and the 426 Hemi was new w/ bugs in the system. Availability was the reason as the 426 wedge was very potent

I am sure the Hemi had bugs, the casting related cracking blocks are one example and quickly dealt with. I also suspect many of the bugs the hemi had were carried over from the Stage 3's, but complicated by the potential higher revving Hemi set up.

 

[33 IMP]

I am sure the Hemi had bugs, the casting related cracking blocks are one example and quickly dealt with. I also suspect many of the bugs the hemi had were carried over from the Stage 3's, but complicated by the potential higher revving Hemi set up.

And I'll bet that not every team was given new Hemi's. And I'll bet not every team could afford a bunch of new hemis if they weren't on the freebies list.
And a wedge just might have been just as competitive on a short track.

 

[Fran Blacker]

The casting problem was well known and reported. They supposedly flew into Daytona new upgraded blocks that placed 1,2, 3 & 5th at their first race of 1964 at Daytona 500. The Gen 2 Hemi had been in design and rushed development for an entire year, using as much as possible from the stage 3 engine, after losing so poorly at the 500 in 1963.

Read someplace the cure was stress relieving the block after casting. True? Think so.