700R4 Swap into '66-'70 small block B-body

[wedgie]

The early B's ('62-'65) had the engine/trans about an inch or more further forward than the '66 and later models. Just thinking out loud here, but maybe that would help with the installation of the 700R4 swap. I am fascinated by this thread because I used my 1989 Suburban 350/700R4 to pull a 32' triaxle Avion camper for years without any transmission issues. They must be fairly decent.

 

[Powerflite]

If you ever want to let that 518 go... just saying. haha

awesome work

If I got rid of it, this blue car would be very sad I need it to work with the pushbutton cable from Imperial Services.
Next time you are coming up my way, shoot me a PM and stop by.

 

[Powerflite]

The early B's ('62-'65) had the engine/trans about an inch or more further forward than the '66 and later models. Just thinking out loud here, but maybe that would help with the installation of the 700R4 swap. I am fascinated by this thread because I used my 1989 Suburban 350/700R4 to pull a 32' triaxle Avion camper for years without any transmission issues. They must be fairly decent.

Having the motor further forward would definitely help. It might even make it possible to use the A518 instead, but it all depends on how far back the T-bar mount is relative to the motor.

As far as the 700R4 goes, they say that the 3rd generation from 1987-1992 is the best (for using without a computer). Before that there were a lot of issues with them that made them very problematic. I am using a trans from a '89 350 Camaro so it should be good too.

 

[racedodge]

or you could have just modified the transmission case itself (see attached pics).

i admire your tenacity, but putting anything GM in a mopar is blasphemy imo.. I dont mean to bust your balls, and I know you did a great job and it will probably work great for you considering you car has a low HP engine, but man... my stomach turns whenever I see a GM anything in a mopar.

good luck and happy cruising!!!!!

 

[Powerflite]

...i admire your tenacity, but putting anything GM in a mopar is blasphemy imo... my stomach turns whenever I see a GM anything in a mopar.

That's funny because the picture above that you posted shows a GM trans mount on your 518. Looks like your stomach is more robust than you thought.

 

[Powerflite]

I finished the column shifter linkage. The B-body linkage shaft was a little too long because it was just kissing the trans. Rather than cut up my original, I had a bent up A-body shaft that I used instead. The A-body one is just long enough with a little to spare so it worked out well.

I used the same mount that I showed previously, but I put it in the correct location and gusseted it to prevent it from flexing. It was also a convenient location for a ground lug at the end of it.

The GM shift arm in the stock location rotates backwards from what Chrysler uses. So I just installed the GM shift arm upside down to make it move in the right direction. The GM arm comes with a large rectangular opening in it that I welded shut and re-drilled.

I originally assumed that the GM 4 speed trans would require more throw than the Chrysler 3 speed. Turns out that it needs slightly less throw, so the bent arm of the A-body linkage ended up being the perfect length.

The shifter works really well with the rod ends installed. Tight with very little slop. Park, Reverse and Neutral end up in the exact same spot as before, while the forward gears are displaced slightly upwards from their markings.

 

[Powerflite]

I also finished the cooling lines. I goofed on one of the bends and made it too long so that it crosses over the other line. Oops. That made it difficult to install, but I didn't want to redo it so there it is.

The stock GM converter dust sheild interferes with the flywheel. But I will cut the front end flap off of it and it should go on then.

 

[Powerflite]

I had to install the chrysler nuts on the ends of the lines to mate to the radiator. I used this flare tool from K-Tool and it worked REALLY well. Much better than other junk tools out there.

I just need to hook up the TV cable and then start on the exhaust. Should have it done by this weekend. Yea!

 

[racedodge]

That's funny because the picture above that you posted shows a GM trans mount on your 518. Looks like your stomach is more robust than you thought.

at least they got the transmission right, 1 out of 2 is better than 0 for 2

And no, just because the pictures show a GM trans mount, does not mean I have done a conversion of any kind that has allowed a GM part to grace its presence on my mopar. I just showed you pictures that I have picked up a long time ago that showed what can be done to the A518 so that it can fit in the tunnel w/o having to massage the tunnel. I have not done this conversion.

And like I said, I admire your tenacity and perserverance, but I would never have done what you have done just based upon my own principles.

Good luck!

 

[Photon440]

at least they got the transmission right, 1 out of 2 is better than 0 for 2

(edit)

And like I said, I admire your tenacity and perserverance, but I would never have done what you have done just based upon my own principles.

Good luck!

Don't forget that some Dodge trucks started using GMC differentials in 2002. Chrysler used Rochester Quadrajets after the Thermoquad was phased out. GM Saginaw power steering pumps grace many of our cars. Those are Chrysler's principles, so using a 700R4 wouldn't make much difference to me.

 

[racedodge]

Don't forget that some Dodge trucks started using GMC differentials in 2002. Chrysler used Rochester Quadrajets after the Thermoquad was phased out. GM Saginaw power steering pumps grace many of our cars. Those are Chrysler's principles, so using a 700R4 wouldn't make much difference to me.

whatever you need to substantiate your closet chevy freak.. go ahead

 

[Photon440]

whatever you need to substantiate your closet chevy freak.. go ahead

Thanks! But I prefer Oldsmobile Quadrajets.

I like your '73 road runner...

Nice work, Powerflite!

-=Photon440=-
Faster Is Better

 

[racedodge]

Thanks! But I prefer Oldsmobile Quadrajets.

I like your '73 road runner...

Nice work, Powerflite!

-=Photon440=-
Faster Is Better

LOL.. thanks.. and I echo.. good job on your work powerflite, lots of good information for others who would want to do this swap.

I wont hijack anymore.. good luck and show a video when you get'er done.

 

[66belvedere2]

how are you going to control lockup?

here is something that might help with the T.V cable set up
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/700R4p1.html

 

[trimmer]

My son runs his own transmission shop so we have rebuilt many of the 700's, A500 and the A518. I see no advantage to having the gm unit over the Mopar ones. The gm has the lowest first gear of all these so that may be a plus in some cars, when you read the tech manual that low gear was designed to launch a vehicle with a powerless motor. The 500 is basically a 904 with an over drive unit and the 518 is the 727 over drive version.
The strength of the 700 depends on the internal parts installed in the unit and not necessarily what it came out of. The other gm over drive the 200 model would have been more than enough for a Mopar small block and an easier installation. Personally I think I would use the 500 or the 518 even if I had to redo the entire floor board and cross member. Furthermore I do not know of anybody that would remove any kind of superior upgrade to reinstall it back to inferior. That would be like removing the the large bolt pattern disc brakes and putting the itty-bitty sbp drums back on my Demon, ain't happening. Demon also has a ford 8.8 with 373 gears and a locker unit so the rear wheels also are bbp.
Just my opinion and as always I might change my mind in the future. lol

 

[Powerflite]

how are you going to control lockup?

here is something that might help with the T.V cable set up
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/700R4p1.html

The lockup is controlled by the B&M speed sensor that I showed installed into the speedometer cable - shown again here. It works really well and the adjustable lockup speed makes it painless for switching gears and using with weak vs. powerfull motors. No internal changes are required to run this controller for 1989 and newer transmissions. The older transmissions require you to disable a hydraulically controlled lockup switch in the valve body first.

Thanks for the link. For the TV cable, I just tack welded a plate to my 2 bbl throttle linkage. I am converting to 4bbl soon so I didn't take the time to make it pretty, but it pulls the right amount and is properly adjusted.

 

[Powerflite]

...The other gm over drive the 200 model would have been more than enough for a Mopar small block and an easier installation. ...

I have a 200-4R in my '63 Nova and I can tell you with certainty that it won't fit easier than the 700-R4 into a '66-'70 B-body. The 200-4R stays wide at the end, offset to the driver side. That wide tail end is a real problem trying to fit through the stock tunnel. The whole reason for using the 700-R4 is that the tail shaft is small enough to fit through the T-bar tunnel. Compare the two transmissions in the photo below. The T-bar tunnel is located right at the beginning of the tailshaft housing on the 700-R4 where I have drawn the red line. Compare that location to the 200-4R trans to the left. It doesn't fit. Besides, the only real issue with my conversion was the speedometer cable routing, and the 200 trans would have the same issue as well.

The 700-R4 is the same trans that Keisler uses in their conversions, only an electronically controlled version with a removeable bellhousing. I wanted the same thing without a computer to control it, and the staggering $4k expense.

 

[Powerflite]

LOL.. thanks.. and I echo.. good job on your work powerflite, lots of good information for others who would want to do this swap.

I wont hijack anymore.. good luck and show a video when you get'er done.

I finished it a week ago. I wanted to use 3.23 gears, but I only had sure grip units. No open gear sets for my wife. The stock speedometer gears were set up for the 2.94 gear equivalent in the original camaro so I decided to give that a try. Boy is that a lame gear combo. Even with the obnoxiously loud, crappy, junk, lame, piss poor #$*%@#! hooker headers, I can barely hear the motor at 70 mph. It is like 1800rpm. Not enough grunt for a heavy wagon and a stock 318. I installed 3.55's this morning and that should be about right. I haven't figured out digital video capture yet, but I may post a picture or two later.

Did I mention that I HATE those terribly made Hooker headers? What a waste of perfectly good steel. I'm just glad I only paid $10 for them. I am going to try to fit some Dakota manifolds, or maybe 340's.

 

[Powerflite]

I finally found time to change out the Hooker headers for Dakota exhaust manifolds. I wasn't sure if they would fit because I read conflicting info on the web. But I offer these photos to prove once and for all that '92-'95 Dakota exhaust manifolds will fit on a B-body without any problem. Much cheaper than 340 manifolds and flow just as well.

My motor is moved 3/8" forward, but these will clearly fit even with the motor in the stock location.


You can also see my tacky TV cable bracket. I know it's ugly, but it is going away in a month or so when I convert the motor to a 4bbl. So I didn't spend much effort making it nice.

 

[Powerflite]

I see that a lot of people are referring to this thread by the number of views it has. I should add that after the install, I had an annoying driveshaft vibration. Whenever you change a yoke or other component on your driveshaft like I did, you need to get it re-balanced. After re-balancing, the vibration went away.

Also, for the reverse lights and neutral saftey switch, Ron Francis wiring makes a nice switch that you can apply to the trans to get that functionality back. They have a couple of options, but this one looks pretty good. It is part number NS-350 for a 350 trans and may require some modification to attach to a 700R4.



Or you could use this full indicator switch for not much more money. This one is GS-70D and is made for the 700R4 trans and has full shift indication capability, but is more complicated. They also supply a nice speed activated, lockup switch that I chose not to use due to geometry constraints.