ALTERNATOR- Electronic Ign. 2 Flield Wire

A12 Mopar Discussions

  1. WM23M9

    WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Holy crap, go figure!
    I assumed (Yeah I know the rule with assumptions) since Year One's wiring harness had a Blue & Green field wire I HAD to be using both..
    Even WITH electronic Ignition? Dunno why M&H does that. Now to find the CORRECT alternator, and hope it's rebuilt correctly!

    Thanks a bunch!!
    How it had been running for a long while, yet DID melt the black 10Ga wire thru bulkhead I have no idea.
     
  2. WM23M9

    WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    Yeah, seems as if Year One's wiring harnesses are made with 1 too many field wires..
    No clue why
     
  3. WM23M9

    WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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    I DO have electronic ignition, this apparently explains WHY the mess of wiring existed on the firewall BEFORE I changed harnesses..
    Like to see how you guys have yours wired.. "Points type" harness with the Electronic addition harness?
    (Wahtta mess!)

    Very much appreciated though!
     
  4. Vinny

    Vinny Well-Known Member

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    I am curious why are you using a dual pulley alternator on an A12 Super Bee anyway?
     
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    • Moparitis

      Moparitis Active Member

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      Plus I thought 69 was a "round back" alt?
       
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      • WM23M9

        WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Yes, supposed to be. But car has had Square Back, 3 wire Alt. on it for 40/45 years. When installing a New Electronic Ignition harness, and Alternator, it becomes a nightmare trying to figure out where to begin. Back to "Points" at this stage..
        (Pics here, are from a STOCK A12 photo). Year One's harnesses don't even have the YELLOW wire from Starter Switch, to Ignition switch in dash! But, a harness for a NON 6 PACK car DOES!) My car hasn't had this YELLOW wire for a long time, probably doesn't need it.
        Jeesus... 20201202_214820.jpg FB_IMG_1605833205484.jpg
         
      • WM23M9

        WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        I think, because the one I removed was a dual pulley, and I cant find the correct bushings..
         
      • WM23M9

        WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Year One's harnesses for 6 Pack cars have 2 field wires.
        I think best option, start over with the NON 6 Pack 383/440 harness that has THE YELLOW wire from "I" on starter switch to Ign switch? Patch in the Elect.Ign. harness? Every 6 pack picture Ive seen has this wire. M&H's 6 Pack 440 harness? Does NOT. omfg!
        (Pics Here are from other cars) with FACTORY 6 Pack/6 Barrel Lynch Road builds!
        FB_IMG_1605833205484.jpg FB_IMG_1605887403516.jpg 20201202_214820.jpg

        Year One's 440 Six Pack harness, on MY CAR below.
        20200726_120538.jpg 20200727_140118.jpg
         
      • WM23M9

        WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        The harness I got from Year One (M&H) for 440 Six/Electronic Ign, has the 2 field wires. Understandably since using electronic Ign.
        Once plugged in, and car starts, the melt begins. Im having some paint work done, so be best time to fix this.
        As Yr One says, using a "Points Style" harness is best way to go. (HU199) I beleive.
        IF I stay with Elec. Ign which I kinda have to, for now. How would YOU deal with this extra BLUE wire? And that "Should Be Grounded" tab on square back alternator? I also notice, once installed, there is a long BLUE lead coming from harness, that I can basically wrap around master cylinder!
        I do know with A12 cars, the old schematics were for Points. So the diagrams Ive had to use say Dash Harness, more closely resemble a 69 Dart!
        Blue wire can be seen with the tag still on it. (I know, I need clean up that firewall too) as far as clutter and placements
        Thank You!!!
        20200726_120538.jpg 20200730_081625.jpg FB_IMG_1598053966783.jpg 20200727_140118.jpg
         
      • dadsbee

        dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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        Even you yourself proved to yourself that one of the field connection tabs was grounded to the alternator case. If you are stuck on using the dual field alternator and it's "system" then fix the field connection and get it isolated from the case. You have a dead short, blue wire 12v+ straight to ground of the alternator case.
         
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        • WM23M9

          WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Ok,, FFWD to Feb 2020! Hagerty had my fire damage all redone. Car looks better than probably did 4/26/69!
          Gave the shop a new engine harness, and alternator. Everythings great, except....
          The damn charging system, again..lol when Hot Rod hooked up alt he was beginning to cook wires and getting 18V! Im thinking BAD Alternator, or Too Much alt.
          Same deal, I have a No CHARGE condition. Surely blue wire shouldnt be used here. Why Year One sells these M&H harnesses for 71 & Later w/Electronic ign, that have 2 field wires is beyond me. I dont have an amp clamp. So cant test its output. Car starts fine! But runs off battery. I guess next move, buy a 1 Wire 55/60 Amp Alternator? Can't keep throwing parts at it. And if its putting out 18V!? Don't wanna just "Jump" Alt to Batt.
          (kaboom).. He did fix fuel guage tho...lol
          Im so tired of OEM wiring!
          Think I'll grab the DVOM & check resistance between TABS, again.
          Thanks, in Advance!!!! 20210216_141415.jpg 20210216_141408.jpg 20210219_140227.jpg
           
        • dadsbee

          dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          I don't know what else I can tell you. Did you listen to what I said in post #30 and isolate that grounded field spade so you can use that two wire voltage regulator???
           
        • WM23M9

          WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Yep, that Alternator I returned to Oreilley, bought one from a guy off e bay who says he builds em. I tested the spades to case, getting 0.001/0.005 ohm at both. Seems like this alternator is maybe too HOT, too many amps?
           
        • WM23M9

          WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          You mean the Electronic Ignition 2 wire regulator?
          Ive seen them on Year one
           
        • dadsbee

          dadsbee FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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          Like I said. I don't know what I can tell you that we haven't already been through! ...other than if those are really your OHM readings than this alternator has BOTH field spades grounded to the case and both should be insulated from the case and show a resistance reading to use that two wire regulator.
           
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          • WM23M9

            WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Wow, Yeah I agree! Again I apologize for the constant problem I seem to have here. Apparently I need a much better made Alternator! The blue wire has Voltage coming FROM it, If I plug it in, the wire heats up wants to melt! Output post is right at 15 volts. I beleive I need a 55 amp 2 wire unit?
            (Car ran fine for years, one day just decided to DISCHARGE!)

            Thank You again!!
             
          • RJRENTON

            RJRENTON FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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            Testing the field connections, aka "spades" to the alternators case indicates, with the readings that you noted, that the terminals are grounded. These connections have NOTHING to do with the alternator being "too hot" finishing too many amps.
            The field wires bring 12 v to the rotating field brushes (in with the blue wire out with the green wire) and back to the regulator which, thru its internal components, controls the current flowing thru the rotating field brushes and the Output VOLTAGE produced by the alternator. The alternators current is determined by diodes and stator windings and is design limited by the impedance of the windings.
            Apparently, your eBay supplier, lacks the fundamental knowledge of how the Mopar alternator functions. The other basic difference between the 1970 round back alternator and the 1972 and later square back design alternator is the diode configuration. The rotating field brushes and brush holders are basically the same. Alternators prior to 1970 use one insulated and one grounded brush holder and a different firewall mounted voltage regulator that controls the current flowing thru the rotating field of the alternator and the maximum OUTPUT voltage of the alternator. The alternators maximum output CURRENT is still limited by design of the diodes and stator winding impedance.
            You cannot arbitrarily interchange pre 1970 alternators with 1970 and later designs WITHOUT changing the rotating field connections and voltage regulator, as discussed previously.
            Just my opinion of course. PM me if you want to discuss further.....
            BOB RENTON
             
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            • WM23M9

              WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              Makes sense! Just cannot fugure out for the life of me, why all of a sudden, with NEW M&H dash & engine harnesses FOR a 6 pack, electronic ign car, in which, THE AMMETER actually worked fine! Now, cant plug in that blue wire w/o cooking everything! Crazy...
              I 'll message ya. And yeah the guy at "Ohio Auto Electric" DID 1st send me an Alternator with the refulator attatched to the case, I sent that back, and looks like he just removed the regulator... Uuugghh boy!
              20210221_103316.jpg

              Thank YOU!!!
               
            • WM23M9

              WM23M9 FBBO Gold Member FBBO Gold Member

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              Was only Alternator under 110A over 55A and under $300 I could find at the time.
              My bad, turns out, it a hunk of crap. I beleive it ws for a car with AC, I'm not currently attending any shows as of yet.
              Screenshot_20210223-124426_Messages.jpg
               
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