ARP Rod Bolts

[Cranky]

The closest block I've ever measured for square was out .005".....which isn't all too bad for a factory deal. Can do some piston and rod swapping to get that down more though. Yes, that works. And no, I don't have a rod gauge but was taught how to measure .0001. It's tedious but can be done. Do have a dial bore gauge but not gonna use it on a rod lol. How bout a snap gauge?? JK JK And good idea about keeping that keyboard grease free....

 

[beanhead]

tits up...

You say that like it's a bad thing

..with .0005 hour glass...

You say that like it's a bad thing

 

[dvw]

Just pulling a torque wrench on a previously torqued fastener only tells you the fastener was twisted with a wrench to somewhere close to the spec. If you are worried that it wasn't correct, the fastener must be loosened, lubed with the proper lube and retorqued. Also should be noted that if you are sneaking up in steps 20/40/60 etc. The last step in torque range should be large enough jump to ensure friction is overcome. Something like 50/55/60 could cause issues. Many times once the fastener has been brought to spec it can be loosened, retourqued, the fastener will rotate further than it did initially. Personally, unless I'm doing a rod bolt by stretch I run the fastener to spec, loosen it and retorque.
Doug

 

[69Bee]

The closest block I've ever measured for square was out .005".....which isn't all too bad for a factory deal. Can do some piston and rod swapping to get that down more though. Yes, that works. And no, I don't have a rod gauge but was taught how to measure .0001. It's tedious but can be done. Do have a dial bore gauge but not gonna use it on a rod lol. How bout a snap gauge?? JK JK And good idea about keeping that keyboard grease free....

My '55 331 Hemi was the closest I have seen. One deck was perfect, and the other was out about 0.002", and both were parallel with the crank. I am not saying you can't get away with certain things, hell, that has been done for decades without problems. I only state that it all gets done if they want my warranty on the motor. The more that is machined, the better it should run. I had a 454 once that had the crank and cam in with the timing chain on, and 1/2" ratchet on the crank socket. Position it at 3 o'clock, and it would rotate the whole assy 90^ to 6 o'clock just due to the weight of the ratchet handle. Snap gauges are awesome...

 

[Cranky]

My '55 331 Hemi was the closest I have seen. One deck was perfect, and the other was out about 0.002", and both were parallel with the crank. I am not saying you can't get away with certain things, hell, that has been done for decades without problems. I only state that it all gets done if they want my warranty on the motor. The more that is machined, the better it should run. I had a 454 once that had the crank and cam in with the timing chain on, and 1/2" ratchet on the crank socket. Position it at 3 o'clock, and it would rotate the whole assy 90^ to 6 o'clock just due to the weight of the ratchet handle. Snap gauges are awesome...

I've used snap gauges lots of times but not too much on rods lol. Used to make 316 SS seal sleeves for pump shafts at work and there were plenty of times when there was not much else to use....or at least that's all we had available to us. Some of those sleeves were pretty dang long and a long handle snap gauge would barely get you in there far enough. Luckily, I had a lathe that was pretty accurate and that made my job much easier. One guy had a machine that tapered .002 per foot and no leveling would help it. He used a good bit of emery cloth....

 

[Cranky]

Just pulling a torque wrench on a previously torqued fastener only tells you the fastener was twisted with a wrench to somewhere close to the spec. If you are worried that it wasn't correct, the fastener must be loosened, lubed with the proper lube and retorqued. Also should be noted that if you are sneaking up in steps 20/40/60 etc. The last step in torque range should be large enough jump to ensure friction is overcome. Something like 50/55/60 could cause issues. Many times once the fastener has been brought to spec it can be loosened, retourqued, the fastener will rotate further than it did initially. Personally, unless I'm doing a rod bolt by stretch I run the fastener to spec, loosen it and retorque.
Doug

Went to a fastener seminar several years ago and they proved that to be wrong. Any time you loosen a nut on a cap screw or a bolt assembly, you won't get the same clamping pressure applied unless you up the torque value on it. Screw on a new nut and voila, the clamping pressure is back up The cap screw or bolt/stud kept it's composure (it only lost a percent or two) but the nut would lose 30% after backing it off and torquing it again. Think about the size of the nut....there's not a whole lot of meat there but there's a lot of a demand placed on it. It surprised the hell out of me the first time seeing what the gauges were reading. I even took my own rod bolts and nuts in for this....ARP stuff included! You can argue or poo poo what I'm saying if you want but I will keep on using new nuts on final assembly on all rods....that is if I ever get back into building engines again but that doesn't look promising.

 

[beanhead]

Just pulling a torque wrench on a previously torqued fastener only tells you the fastener was twisted with a wrench to somewhere close to the spec. If you are worried that it wasn't correct, the fastener must be loosened, lubed with the proper lube and retorqued. Also should be noted that if you are sneaking up in steps 20/40/60 etc. The last step in torque range should be large enough jump to ensure friction is overcome. Something like 50/55/60 could cause issues. Many times once the fastener has been brought to spec it can be loosened, retourqued, the fastener will rotate further than it did initially. Personally, unless I'm doing a rod bolt by stretch I run the fastener to spec, loosen it and retorque.
Doug

Absolutely agree and that's all I was after was making sure there wasn't a brainfart and they missed one...that's where trusting them comes into play, trusting that if my wrench at least clicks without the bolt spinning then they got it right. Very true that I can't be certain of that part without doing it from the beginning...

 

[cryplydog]

ARP has a wonderful book just chock full of info and stretch indicators and a lot more info in the Machinerys Handbook. It all gets kinda sciencey with all the metallurgy and SAE's and all. I remember back in the late 60's we would just put the old bolts back on and a mechanic down town would come over after work and tighten the rod and main bolts by "feel" with a wrench because he "knew" about how tight to tighten them he said. I just use new arp bolts/studs and their thread lube and their gauges. Calibrate all your mic's and bore gauges with standards at room temp, they can be a couple tenths off easily if theres much of a temp variation. one of the afore mentioned books says 74*'s , Danged SAE's. Oh yeah, all of our shed motors did well, for awhile or until we crashed. But, they were not what I/We build today.

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