Boiling my fuel.

[sputnik 440]

Personally I would swap the rubber out for steel. I have steel lines to the (mechanical) pump and from there to the carb. Factory routing, factory HiPo manifolds. I only get into (heat) trouble when my temp climbs higher than about 210°. Which is rare.
Also, if you're running any percentage of Ethanol you're going to be very sorry running that much rubber line. It will it it like pigs at the trough.
Steel lines also will not trap the heat as rubber will.

Thanks Lionized...good points on the ethanol. I always fill up with the good stuff, but good stuff is not always in the station's tank. And, you are right about the lack of heat dissipation from the rubber. It doesn't want to heat up as quick as metal. What goes up fast, comes down fast. Steel transfers heat 10 times faster than rubber, while steel only holds 1/4th as much heat energy. It would seem to make theoretical sense to go with a material that will not transfer the heat it holds, into the gas going through it. Now, with all that said, I will be opening up the web to find a metal replacement for the rubber. My reason, It Looks Better. Might as well get rid of the inlet tube. I think they are only 5/16' coming down from 3/8" anyway. Any suggestions on that? Might as well move the filter to the upside of the pump and put a new gauge in front of the inlet line. I bought a mid price range one ($30?)with fluid in it and don't really like it. I would think the fuel would like coming up the front of that path better than running along the fire wall. A lot shorter distance and less time to pick up heat. Any suggestions on who to purchase the "stuff" from?

 

[themechanic]

Make one of these.

 

[Lionized]

Thanks Lionized...good points on the ethanol. I always fill up with the good stuff, but good stuff is not always in the station's tank. And, you are right about the lack of heat dissipation from the rubber. It doesn't want to heat up as quick as metal. What goes up fast, comes down fast. Steel transfers heat 10 times faster than rubber, while steel only holds 1/4th as much heat energy. It would seem to make theoretical sense to go with a material that will not transfer the heat it holds, into the gas going through it. Now, with all that said, I will be opening up the web to find a metal replacement for the rubber. My reason, It Looks Better. Might as well get rid of the inlet tube. I think they are only 5/16' coming down from 3/8" anyway. Any suggestions on that? Might as well move the filter to the upside of the pump and put a new gauge in front of the inlet line. I bought a mid price range one ($30?)with fluid in it and don't really like it. I would think the fuel would like coming up the front of that path better than running along the fire wall. A lot shorter distance and less time to pick up heat. Any suggestions on who to purchase the "stuff" from?

Tell me more about your "inlet tube". Are you saying that you have a 5/16" line from the tank going into a 3/8" pump feed? If yes, check your sending unit and ensure it's not also 3/8"! If it is and your line is necked down, you will more than likely have a 1/4" return line nipple on the sending unit. This would be great news.
If your sender is actually 5/16" feed, check for a 1/4" nipple regardless and go buy a Fram G3499 filter. Your replacement STAINLESS STEEL lines will be $200 from the tank to the pump and back. 3/8" or 5/16" with the 1/4" return line. Pump to carb line is $35. Step up to the 3/8" sender, another $45.
All would be money well spent.

http://www.getdiscbrakes.com/partfinder

 

[coloradodave]

When you speak of blocking off the heat cross-over, what is the best way to do it. I really don't want to change the pan but if it is the best way then so be it. Also, the restoration shop ran metal tubing from tank to fuel filter under the passenger sill plate. From there they ran rubber fuel line to the mechanical fuel pump and from the pump to the pressure gauge, and, more rubber to the chrome tubing supplying fuel to each end of the Holley double pumper. Does this sound right? Does the rubber line provide the necessary insulation? Does it create other short or long term problems?

If I am understanding you, you have a metal tube with fuel running through your passenger compartment? That's not a safe situation. All racing safety organizations that I'm aware of forbid that practice.

 

[sputnik 440]

Bad explanation of the set up..I apologize. There is a 3/8" (looks like copper) line running Under the Passenger Sill where it joins a filter and changes over to a 3/8" rubber fuel line. That fuel line follows the sill - to the outer wheel well - around the curvature of the well to where it passes through a grommet right across from the mechanical pump. From the pump, the rubber fuel line goes back into the wheel well (shortest distance) and follows the upper-inner part of the wheel well until it passes through a grommet that comes out right on the firewall, in the engine compartment. It goes across the firewall about 12" and mates with a fuel gauge and then connects to the steel, only 5/16", carb inlet tube, that then connects to the dp 850 4150 Holley. This was the best way I could think of limiting the exposure to the fuel line to the heat from the 440 with the headers. I maybe should have decided to simply go with metal from the pump to the carbs in front of the engine, but I wanted to stay with the pump to carb line (rubber) going outside the compartment and then a short run to the carb via a hole through the upper portion of that wheel well. I must say, I have not had a heating or boiling problem with it, it just looks amateurish.
Dave, I like what you did. What metal is the tubing?

 

[coloradodave]

Jim, so you are saying that the 'copper' tubing is installed under the rocker panel, outside of the passenger compartment? Which picture of fuel lines are you referring to on my car? They've been changed several times.

 

[sputnik 440]

Jim, so you are saying that the 'copper' tubing is installed under the rocker panel, outside of the passenger compartment? Which picture of fuel lines are you referring to on my car? They've been changed several times.

Sorry Dave, the lines were on themechanic's engine. But yes, the copper tubing is outside of the car tucked up under the passenger door sill where it couples with a filter (std one) under the the door just before the front fender, and then goes to rubber up the wheel well and over and down to the point parallel to ground with the pump. There is goes through the wheel well and through a grommet over to the fuel pump. See anything bad about this set up?

 

[Lionized]

Sorry Dave, the lines were on themechanic's engine. But yes, the copper tubing is outside of the car tucked up under the passenger door sill where it couples with a filter (std one) under the the door just before the front fender, and then goes to rubber up the wheel well and over and down to the point parallel to ground with the pump. There is goes through the wheel well and through a grommet over to the fuel pump. See anything bad about this set up?

Other than the fact that you have rubber fuel line exposed to road debris?!

 

[sputnik 440]

You are right there, But I have never seen a rubber hose (hydraulic, water or for that matter gas) where out from road debris, not to mention your tires. Have you ever tried to cut a rubber fuel hose? Better have a razor knife. Of course, in a wreck, that is a different story, but I think I would take my chances on a flexible line rather than one that pinches, cracks or bursts. However....like I said before...I will be going to stainless because I like the way it looks. I don't plan on running over any road debris on the way to the shows. LOL Lion LOL One other question, has anyone put one of Holly's electric fuel gauges in? Do they last? Accurate? Fluctuate with heat like the under the hood ones? Of course the sender is right where the under the hood gauge would be anyway. Still would like to know if they are more stable.

 

[Lionized]

You are right there, But I have never seen a rubber hose (hydraulic, water or for that matter gas) where out from road debris, not to mention your tires. Have you ever tried to cut a rubber fuel hose? Better have a razor knife. Of course, in a wreck, that is a different story, but I think I would take my chances on a flexible line rather than one that pinches, cracks or bursts. However....like I said before...I will be going to stainless because I like the way it looks. I don't plan on running over any road debris on the way to the shows. LOL Lion LOL One other question, has anyone put one of Holly's electric fuel gauges in? Do they last? Accurate? Fluctuate with heat like the under the hood ones? Of course the sender is right where the under the hood gauge would be anyway. Still would like to know if they are more stable.

You're talking about a rubber FUEL LINE in your wheel well. Not some line that's underhood (water/hydraulic/etc.). There's a reason these lines are steel and run on the inside of the frame-rail.
You want to take the risk with a car you're apparently showing, be my guest. I've given the best advice I could. I just hope no-one smokes around the passenger front of the vehicle.

 

[sputnik 440]

Lionized, I trying to some humor in this discussion I don't see a big problem with rubber fuel lines, they have been around forever. But listen once again, third time, ...like I said before...I will be going to stainless because I like the way it looks. I also asked a couple of serious questions. Is there a problem running the steel lines along the same path as the rubber? Up under the wheel wells? However....like I said before...I will be going to stainless because I like the way it looks. One other question, has anyone put one of Holly's electric fuel gauges in? Do they last? Accurate? Fluctuate with heat like the under the hood ones? Of course the sender is right where the under the hood gauge would be anyway. Still would like to know if they are more stable. That's all for me. Moving on to fuel pumps tomorrow. I'm confused about the inlet and outlet dimensions. Run a 3/8" id hose, or line, and run it in and out of a 1/4"npt to the intake tube that appears necked down as well. Isn't the practice to run the same size line all the way to the bowls?

 

[PP1RT]

It's 92 today. Took her out for a test drive. Not to good.
The engine temp was at 195 at idle. I took off and within a
100 yards the A/F gauge showed 11-1. Better than before.
Before the changes the A/F would peg to 9-1, and the engine would die.

Why not run the fuel line in the stock location and come up the front of the motor. It has to be a LOT cooler up there than it is near the firewall. All the heat is pushed up against the firewall and forced down and out. Basically where your fuel lines currently are.

 

[sputnik 440]

Exactly. I have been saying that I am going to metal because of looks. Yes, but the real reason is to get the fuel lines up front and away from the heat that the headers are producing and heating up the firewall and thus the fuel line. I have been looking for the stainless tube set up from where my filter currently is (under the sill at the head of the passenger door), following the old path under the engine along the engine compartment to the pump. This needs to be a 3/8" id line. I will stay with my current pump if it is 110 gph one, otherwise replace it with a Holley 110 gph. Calculations show I should use 50+ gph (not my formula but from the Holley Tech site). I will locate a new filter between the pump and the carb inlet tube(s) with the fuel gauge sensor (electronic...I want a gauge under my dash) and an under the hood gauge to use during any tuning or troubleshooting applications. What do you think? Should I trust the joining of my current line at the current location of the filter to a new SS line that will go to the pump? Lion...thanks for your guidance. I know it took the long way to get there, but thanks.

 

[sputnik 440]

I hope several of you are still reading this thread. Rather than start a new one, I thought that much of the details are here and I know I am talking to the right guys. OK, got the new SS lines. Took them out of the box and straightened the tank to pump one out. Got the 67 Plymouth Satellite jacked up and looked at the line the restorers put in. Appears they spliced a 3/8 line from where the bends go from the sill to the tank. They did this conveniently at the sill just in front of the rear wheel well. The line runs up the sill to just before the rear of he front wheel well. There is where they put the filter. They then spiced in the 3/8 fuel hose that goes around the inside of the wheel well.

Ok, I see no clear path for the new line to run from the sill to the pump. Can anyone provide a photo or diagram for the track it should follow? I have fought this snake for a couple of hours and it is still laying on the floor and not close to going in. It might be easier if I did not have the headers in the way, but there is absolutely no way I can remove them without removing the engine. If I get close to one of them I think it will boil the fuel, which is what this thread was about in the beginning. Any suggestions? I am trying to decide if the line goes over, around or through the upper control arm. I would think it would go through holes in the frame, but the bends don't begin to match up. I have looked for clip holes and don't see any of them either. Help will be greatly appreciated....Jim

 

[Lionized]

I hope several of you are still reading this thread. Rather than start a new one, I thought that much of the details are here and I know I am talking to the right guys. OK, got the new SS lines. Took them out of the box and straightened the tank to pump one out. Got the 67 Plymouth Satellite jacked up and looked at the line the restorers put in. Appears they spliced a 3/8 line from where the bends go from the sill to the tank. They did this conveniently at the sill just in front of the rear wheel well. The line runs up the sill to just before the rear of he front wheel well. There is where they put the filter. They then spiced in the 3/8 fuel hose that goes around the inside of the wheel well.

Ok, I see no clear path for the new line to run from the sill to the pump. Can anyone provide a photo or diagram for the track it should follow? I have fought this snake for a couple of hours and it is still laying on the floor and not close to going in. It might be easier if I did not have the headers in the way, but there is absolutely no way I can remove them without removing the engine. If I get close to one of them I think it will boil the fuel, which is what this thread was about in the beginning. Any suggestions? I am trying to decide if the line goes over, around or through the upper control arm. I would think it would go through holes in the frame, but the bends don't begin to match up. I have looked for clip holes and don't see any of them either. Help will be greatly appreciated....Jim

I can only speak from later B Body experience but the fuel line should run up the inside of the frame rail, along the inside of the rocker panel and up into the engine compartment along the inside of the frame rail.
Edit:
I believe it also passes through the torsion bar crossmember...if memory serves me correctly.

 

[sputnik 440]

This line is like a pretzel at the front part that goes to the pump. Unless I straighten out some 45* bends, it won't follow the rail, but I am going up there and try it again. Thanks for the help....I'm going to start a new post on this.