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Car Prices Reality Check...

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4ever69

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I work at a Mopar shop here in the east, we do mainly upgrades, suspensions, drive trains, interior etc... I know my way around them.... I just wanted to get a feel for people really think some of these cars are worth, just the run of the mill vehicles, not Hemi, or 6 pack cars....

From what I have been seeing, a nothing special, 4 speed BB car restored, lets say between an 6 an 8, goes for anywhere from $20k to $30k all day long... I've seen RR and Chargers, some E bodies, all about the same price range. I've seen some maybe a solid 5's going for $12k or $15k What I have seen that kind of cracks me up, is crazy prices for partial or project cars.

Maybe it's me, but why would spend $5k on a car that's missing A LOT of crap including a motor, and needs a full rotisserie restoration, when you buy a 5 tenths car for $12k?

Anyway, just had to vent a little bit.......
 
over here on the west coast, you get a much better car for the dollar, as there will be minimal rust issues. we mainly have to deal with dry rot and sun damage.
have you seen the market for Mustang FB's lately. crazy!
 
I looked for months in the southeast to find a nice B-body. Went and looked at two GTXs close by in Florida. The first one was matching #'s, 4 spd, buckets, console. Rockers were rotting out, quarters, lower fenders and they couldn't even get it to start. interior was original and needed restoring. Great resto candidate but they wanted $32K for it. Second one was all original, auto, bench seat. Been sitting a while, didn't look like any rust issues and the guy wanted $42K. Just could not find anything better so I ended up buying a car from a long way away. Older resto, but runs/drives good, body solid and great paint for less than either of those. It seems to me that good cars are hard to find right now unless you want to shell out $50K.
 
Hello I don't post much on this board mainly just reading usually over on c-bodies, I just couldn't resist on this post. I was at Norwalk last weekend saw a 66 charger $9000 obo no rust 440 needed paint car sold, I don't know how much but they said got close, I actually think the car was well priced and bought. Another 66 charger near my house fenders and 1/4s with rust holes 383-2 very resto sold for $7500 way more than its worth but I guess that's how car dealers have been making money for years people buying with there heart not brain.
 
4ever69 said:
I work at a Mopar shop here in the east, we do mainly upgrades, suspensions, drive trains, interior etc... I know my way around them.... I just wanted to get a feel for people really think some of these cars are worth, just the run of the mill vehicles, not Hemi, or 6 pack cars....

From what I have been seeing, a nothing special, 4 speed BB car restored, lets say between an 6 an 8, goes for anywhere from $20k to $30k all day long... I've seen RR and Chargers, some E bodies, all about the same price range. I've seen some maybe a solid 5's going for $12k or $15k What I have seen that kind of cracks me up, is crazy prices for partial or project cars.

Maybe it's me, but why would spend $5k on a car that's missing A LOT of crap including a motor, and needs a full rotisserie restoration, when you buy a 5 tenths car for $12k?

Anyway, just had to vent a little bit.......
Click to expand...

.......in the end, it comes down to inventory and supply. Solid B Body cars are amongst the rarest cars to find in decent condition. Many of the better selections are in Europe. I hunted for a numbers matching car in good shape for a long time, like 4 years, before I found one with the correct numbers and value. The real issue now is fraud and fantasy. Many numbers cars are bull and many high-end cars are just too high. 20k for a numbers matching car in 5 condition with a good body would be a deal for a Mopar now. If you find it, keep it.
 
brogers93 said:
I looked for months in the southeast to find a nice B-body. Went and looked at two GTXs close by in Florida. The first one was matching #'s, 4 spd, buckets, console. Rockers were rotting out, quarters, lower fenders and they couldn't even get it to start. interior was original and needed restoring. Great resto candidate but they wanted $32K for it. Second one was all original, auto, bench seat. Been sitting a while, didn't look like any rust issues and the guy wanted $42K. Just could not find anything better so I ended up buying a car from a long way away. Older resto, but runs/drives good, body solid and great paint for less than either of those. It seems to me that good cars are hard to find right now unless you want to shell out $50K.
Click to expand...

brogers93 said:
I looked for months in the southeast to find a nice B-body. Went and looked at two GTXs close by in Florida. The first one was matching #'s, 4 spd, buckets, console. Rockers were rotting out, quarters, lower fenders and they couldn't even get it to start. interior was original and needed restoring. Great resto candidate but they wanted $32K for it. Second one was all original, auto, bench seat. Been sitting a while, didn't look like any rust issues and the guy wanted $42K. Just could not find anything better so I ended up buying a car from a long way away. Older resto, but runs/drives good, body solid and great paint for less than either of those. It seems to me that good cars are hard to find right now unless you want to shell out $50K.
Click to expand...

There's an original 6 pack 70 RR that's had the resto done and needs assembly on ebay right now that met it's reserve at $10k. It will probably double before it closes. I know the cars are in limited numbers, but they never got the money the mustang and camaro's get, and people need to be realistic about pricing these rust buckets....

BTW I don't think a numbers matching car makes a hell of a difference unless it's something special like a rag top, HEMI or 6 Pack car... I mean a bench seat 383 4 speed RR with a numbers matching motor a drive train, and not isn't going to change the resale much, but a clean car vs a surface rust would...

- - - Updated - - -

on ebay, there's 70 charger 500, starting bid in $25k, looks to be an unrestored original garage puppy.... You would have to check to see if it is indeed all original and not a scam, but that would be a find....
 
4ever69 said:
I work at a Mopar shop here in the east, we do mainly upgrades, suspensions, drive trains, interior etc... I know my way around them.... I just wanted to get a feel for people really think some of these cars are worth, just the run of the mill vehicles, not Hemi, or 6 pack cars....

From what I have been seeing, a nothing special, 4 speed BB car restored, lets say between an 6 an 8, goes for anywhere from $20k to $30k all day long... I've seen RR and Chargers, some E bodies, all about the same price range. I've seen some maybe a solid 5's going for $12k or $15k What I have seen that kind of cracks me up, is crazy prices for partial or project cars.

Maybe it's me, but why would spend $5k on a car that's missing A LOT of crap including a motor, and needs a full rotisserie restoration, when you buy a 5 tenths car for $12k?

Anyway, just had to vent a little bit.......
Click to expand...

Your assessment is correct IMHO as far as what's available and what prices cars are going for.

I'd say it has to do with how much car a person can afford at one time and how specific they are on what they want i.e. if you absolutely want a 68 bucket seat hardtop RR or a factory triple black 4 speed 69 Superbee your market is really limited so you choose from what's available.

There have been some very nice cars going lately in the $25-30K range, but they are what they are. Some people want to do the work and choose the color, interior, options, drivetrain they want which may or may not be factory.
 
4ever69 said:
on ebay, there's 70 charger 500, starting bid in $25k, looks to be an unrestored original garage puppy.... You would have to check to see if it is indeed all original and not a scam, but that would be a find....
Click to expand...

That car was for sale just a few days ago right on this forum. It was sold and hit Ebay about 5 minutes later.
 
From what I can tell the muscle car market seems to be following the new car market. An average new car goes for about $25k, just like an average muscle car. The higher end new cars go up accordingly so do muscle cars. just my opinion.
 
Yeah, the original owner sold it for $20k. I tried to buy it but the seller took a long time to answer emails and it was committed to the flipper before I had a chance. :angry1:

John L said:
That car was for sale just a few days ago right on this forum. It was sold and hit Ebay about 5 minutes later.
Click to expand...

- - - Updated - - -

Hey 4ever69- Where's your shop? I'm in NJ, right over the GW Bridge. I'm looking for a good mechanic to possibly do a conversion to a 4 speed from auto. I have a 70 RR, 383, console automatic.
 
Some people think their rust buckets are gold. Buying a completed car can be a double edged sword as you have no way of knowing how well the work was done. Now if you know the person that did the work and has the whole process documented you should be ok but buying from a stranger and possibly a flipper can bring heart ache. It does make me laugh when I see cars that are basket cases selling for almost as much as a complete car. If you can afford to buy a complete car that was done right you would be way ahead but some people can't afford that kind of $$ up front so they buy that project and slowly peck at it and in a lot of cases those people give up due to the magnitude of the process. You can't blame people for trying to get their retirement fund out of cars they try to sell.......it's just the way people are. My advise is to shop smart and choose your battles
( projects ) carefully, you really have to think hard and decide if you really want to take ten or more yrs to complete the project.

Robert
 
Good sage advice here in this thread! I deal with Rust on these cars on a almost daily basis in media blasting these things. Rust is by far the thing that eats up time and money quickly. Rust is SO damaging, and it has such a systemic effect, rust in the window channels creates a hole, water enters, it rusts where water hits (trunk pans) and along the dutchman panel and trunk panels -- and these areas usually don't have much paint on them from the factory, so, the rust there is always bad.

One area I can add to is the eager guy that just assesses the rust as 'not being too bad' and the car has not even been to the media blaster yet, let alone disassembled! This is what drives the rust bucket market to insane heights, then, these cars become money pits; either the owner will quit, and sell or sit on his project, or he will complete it!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, or they Bondo over it! That's the worst, and the most offensive to me! This is why I bought a Ferrous and Non Ferrous thickness detector for paint, and Bondo for my line of work.
 
I don't know what to think of the current pricing on restored/projects cars. Here in Los Angeles the cars are a little cheaper...but not much, I'm 52 years old and have owned a lot of Mopars since the late 70's. The most I ever paid for one was $5,500, that was a '69 Road Runner that was a dealer demo car,(that was perfect) and loaded with with pretty much every option, my friends thought I had lost my mind paying that much for a 383 car!. 90% of the Mopars I've bought I was the 2nd owner...including my '69 Coronet 500 I bought in 1980 for $1,500. It's a factory 383 4 barrel car, (now 440) auto. trans a/c, 6 way seat, ps, pwr disc brakes, etc. Here's a current picture, the Ramcharger hood has been on it since the 80's, still has the original paint/dents...no rust ever, it was my daily drive up until a few years ago, what would this be worth?, if people are asking $5 to 10k for projects?. Coronet pictures 069.JPG
 
Donny, exactly right!!! What looks like a little rust bubble on top, is just slight indication of what's really there, media blasting as you said tells the real story. I commented on a " very rust free" car in the adds, and it got pulled. Either it's rust free or it ain't, there isn't anything other than that. And that car to be right needs a complete resto.

What will happen, is somebody will see that car with no holes, cleans the surface rust, bondo's over it, throws a nice paint job on it, and 2 years later, the rust blisters through...

Wat I see a lot of, people buying what they can afford, a $5k or even $10k project car, they strip the car, the more they clean, the worse it gets, and eventually loose interest...

I'm just thinking $10k for a project car, unless it's complete, numbers matching, at least has a good interior is way over priced, and a shell for $5k, is way over priced....

CR
 
I paid 3300 for my 74 charger 3 years ago it was just a shell really. it was from Alabama and was almost rust free, to me it was worth every dime to not have to spend six months welding a frame and floors into it. I have done the rust repair thing before and from now on I will only do it on a car that has some real value like a hemi car or perhaps a six pack car it just take to much to do it right.
 
4ever69 said:
I work at a Mopar shop here in the east, we do mainly upgrades, suspensions, drive trains, interior etc... I know my way around them.... I just wanted to get a feel for people really think some of these cars are worth, just the run of the mill vehicles, not Hemi, or 6 pack cars....

From what I have been seeing, a nothing special, 4 speed BB car restored, lets say between an 6 an 8, goes for anywhere from $20k to $30k all day long... I've seen RR and Chargers, some E bodies, all about the same price range. I've seen some maybe a solid 5's going for $12k or $15k What I have seen that kind of cracks me up, is crazy prices for partial or project cars.

Maybe it's me, but why would spend $5k on a car that's missing A LOT of crap including a motor, and needs a full rotisserie restoration, when you buy a 5 tenths car for $12k?

Anyway, just had to vent a little bit.......
Click to expand...
There are several ways to look at this. Realistically, what these cars are worth, is nothing more than scrap prices. They are crappy, rusty, unsafe pieces of S**T. That's the truth. Today, you could buy any car that is better built, safer, smaller, more economical, more reliable, than the stuff we spend money on. Hell, a Smart car is safer than an old B Body.

Now, here's the other side. Our old cars look damn good. You don't see kids giving a thumbs up to a Toyota Camry. Here in North America there is(was) a car culture that is unique. It represents freedom to the youth, or at least it did. This never happened anywhere else. In the end, these old cars are worth nothing, but they are worth everything. They are worthless, but they are priceless.
 
I have to say these cars are only worth as much as you believe it is worth to you. I'd love to own an original hemi 4 speed car or something of that nature but to be honest it's not any more valuable to me then the 67 in my driveway. Its about the drive, the feel, and how big of a smile it puts on your face that determines the value....if you are just a collector and put them in a barn I say you do a disservice to those who would drive it.

Beyond that, most of the reason people don't spend 5-12k on a project half done is because its a project and its half done. Most of us can't run out and drop 8k on a rust free project car. Myself, I could barely agree to pay the $1800 I did for my car and looking back wish I hadn't with all of the rust repair I've done. But for a guy like me with minimal surplus income, to expect to own a Mopar that I don't restore myself before the age of 50 is probably unrealistic.

But looking at the cost of restoration even to a level like I am doing (probably a 5-6 on the show car o-meter) I can say that buying a rust free project is a good way to start but no more than a 4-5k investment and should be a whole car not just a shell. I have around 6k invested and should have it on the road and in fresh paint for under 7k. So buying an 8k rust free "project" just doesn't make sense as a starting point.

Oh and just because its an R/T original 4 speed car with original bucket seats and A/C doesn't mean that its any more deserving than that satellite sitting in the little ol grandma's garage....I'd start with the satellite.
 
http://www.hagerty.com/price-guide/1969-Plymouth-Road_Runner

I thought this was interresting because it is an average of what owners would take for there cars if they were gone. And against how much they wanted to shell out to an insurance company/ slot machine.

The most interresting part of this is when you click on trends. You find a graff of the trend over a number of years, and varing conditions.
 
kdtjb said:
http://www.hagerty.com/price-guide/1969-Plymouth-Road_Runner

I thought this was interresting because it is an average of what owners would take for there cars if they were gone. And against how much they wanted to shell out to an insurance company/ slot machine.
Click to expand...


...there is an interesting question. As I have always stated, supply and demand. If you want a car that is a project....lots of stuff out there. If you want a car that has all the original stuff in it.....rare. Rare means more cost and the more rare it was when new, the more cost it is now. If you have an all original B Body 383 plain-jane car, but all the correct numbers, it will be worth way more than the car that has none of these things.
 
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