Hemirunner
Well-Known Member
My vote is the hellcat with a manual trans. Enjoy!
Cat in a crate or Build a 440?
- Thread starter Dubjitsu
- Start date
Sweet5ltr
Well-Known Member
Exactly. It's $6,000-$8,000 alone for a blower kit for any GEN III Hemi engine, then add another thousand for tuning costs. $15,000 is a great deal, considering how well engineered and overbuilt the engine is from the cylinder heads down. We haven't even discussed that it has a 3-year, unlimited mile warranty as well.
Dubjitsu
Active Member
So what I'm getting is if I'm good staying in the 500hp range (I drive a '15 SP Challenger right now so I'm used to that which is why I wanted to push this to the next level) then it's pretty much better all around to go with a crate 392 gen 3 hemi then building a 440 of equal power. 500 at the crank, can use the 727 trans and don't need to do much else other then brakes and possibly some suspension and off I go. Cheapest, easiest way to get some decent power.
OR...
If I really want to get crazy then it's still better all-around to go with a gen 3 hemi and get the Cat in a crate. Costs of building a 440 to even come close to the numbers a Hellcat puts out outweigh getting a factory built, warrantied motor that's plug and play. Only problem there is now I'd need to upgrade the rest of the driveline (new trans, rear end), beef up the frame (torque boxes, anything else?), upgrade suspension, etc. So my original thought of putting 10k in a 440 and a few more thousand into brakes, AC and suspension is suddenly a 30k min. project. This all sound about right?
Thanks again for all the help. I can't stop thinking about this project and last summer driving around with the 318 just didn't cut it!
OR...
If I really want to get crazy then it's still better all-around to go with a gen 3 hemi and get the Cat in a crate. Costs of building a 440 to even come close to the numbers a Hellcat puts out outweigh getting a factory built, warrantied motor that's plug and play. Only problem there is now I'd need to upgrade the rest of the driveline (new trans, rear end), beef up the frame (torque boxes, anything else?), upgrade suspension, etc. So my original thought of putting 10k in a 440 and a few more thousand into brakes, AC and suspension is suddenly a 30k min. project. This all sound about right?
Thanks again for all the help. I can't stop thinking about this project and last summer driving around with the 318 just didn't cut it!
Dubjitsu
Active Member
Either way I want an automatic trans. I've been driving a manual for years and am tired of shifting! lol Plus my girlfriend sucks at it so she uses it as an excuse not to drive on road trips...
Sweet5ltr
Well-Known Member
You're going to have at least $20,000 into it any way you go for what you want. These cars are not inexpensive to build, unless you place them back into factory spec.
Just some general parts estimates;
GEN III 6.4. $6,000.
Hotchkis sway-bars, torsion bars, subframe connectors, and tuned Fox shocks. $1,600-$2,000.
US car tool for all the frame stiffening/bracing parts, like torque boxes. $500-$1,000.
727 transmission with hemi flexplate & spacer kit. $1,500.
Torque converter. $600-$900.
Dana 60 or 8 3/4 with new limited-slip differential. $1,500-$2,000.
Big brake kit on the front. $800-$2,000.
Brake kit for the rear. $600-$1,000.
Vintage air and all related components. $1,500-$2,000.
Modern Wheels / tires. $1,500-$2,000.
Just some general parts estimates;
GEN III 6.4. $6,000.
Hotchkis sway-bars, torsion bars, subframe connectors, and tuned Fox shocks. $1,600-$2,000.
US car tool for all the frame stiffening/bracing parts, like torque boxes. $500-$1,000.
727 transmission with hemi flexplate & spacer kit. $1,500.
Torque converter. $600-$900.
Dana 60 or 8 3/4 with new limited-slip differential. $1,500-$2,000.
Big brake kit on the front. $800-$2,000.
Brake kit for the rear. $600-$1,000.
Vintage air and all related components. $1,500-$2,000.
Modern Wheels / tires. $1,500-$2,000.
rlem1977
Well-Known Member
Like everything - depends on time and money, mostly money.
Mopar HellCrate: Not for the poor.
https://www.mopar.com/content/dam/mopar/pdf/store/103631_MOP_SEMA_HeroCard_REV_NC.pdf
Hot Rod 440 Builds:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/how-you-can-build-a-stout-537hp-street-440/
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1304-440-mopar-engine-back-to-basics/
Mopar HellCrate: Not for the poor.
https://www.mopar.com/content/dam/mopar/pdf/store/103631_MOP_SEMA_HeroCard_REV_NC.pdf
Hot Rod 440 Builds:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/how-you-can-build-a-stout-537hp-street-440/
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/mopp-1304-440-mopar-engine-back-to-basics/
Dubjitsu
Active Member
Here's a quote we got from Muscle Motors for everything we need minus the carb to build 650 hp 440. Any thoughts?
505 / 440 Stroker Kit
$ 2899
Icon Forged Dish Piston ( For Pump Gas)
Total Seal Conventional Style File to Fit Rings
King Chamfered Rod / Main Bearings
Molnar Technologies 4.250 Stroke / 2.200 Journal / 4340 Steel Crank
Molnar Technologies 7.100 Length / 2.200 Journal / ARP 2000 Bolt / Bushed .990 Pin Rods
Internally Balanced
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -----------------
Indy EZ Heads $ $3899
Castings
MM 2.19 x 1.81 1 Piece Stainless Valves
Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller Valve Srpings
Comp Cams 10 Degree Locks / Retainers
Comp Cams Viton Valve Seals
Comp Cams Spring Locators
5 Angle Valve Job
Mill Heads to 75CC ( After CNC Porting)
CNC Porting
Assembly of Heads
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -----------------
Parts to Finish / Accessories
$4599
Melling HV Oil Pump
Milodon Bronze Distributor Drive
Milodon 7 Qt Pan / Pick - Up
MM Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
MM Hydraulic Roller Lifters
MM Billet Timing Set
Manley .080 Wall Ball / Ball Pushrods
PRW Stainless Roller Rocker Kit
Indy 1 x 4 Intake (Single or Dual Plane) Ported
Powerbond SFI Harmonic Balancer
Fel Pro Race Gaskets
MSD Pro Billet Distributor
MSD Plug Wires
MP Distributor Holdown
ARP Head Bolts
Cast Valley Plate
Cast Valve Covers / Studs
Roller Cam Thrust Plate / Bearing
Oil Pan Bolts
Harmonic Balancer Bolt
MP Chrome Timing Cover
505 / 440 Stroker Kit
$ 2899
Icon Forged Dish Piston ( For Pump Gas)
Total Seal Conventional Style File to Fit Rings
King Chamfered Rod / Main Bearings
Molnar Technologies 4.250 Stroke / 2.200 Journal / 4340 Steel Crank
Molnar Technologies 7.100 Length / 2.200 Journal / ARP 2000 Bolt / Bushed .990 Pin Rods
Internally Balanced
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -----------------
Indy EZ Heads $ $3899
Castings
MM 2.19 x 1.81 1 Piece Stainless Valves
Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller Valve Srpings
Comp Cams 10 Degree Locks / Retainers
Comp Cams Viton Valve Seals
Comp Cams Spring Locators
5 Angle Valve Job
Mill Heads to 75CC ( After CNC Porting)
CNC Porting
Assembly of Heads
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ -----------------
Parts to Finish / Accessories
$4599
Melling HV Oil Pump
Milodon Bronze Distributor Drive
Milodon 7 Qt Pan / Pick - Up
MM Custom Hydraulic Roller Cam
MM Hydraulic Roller Lifters
MM Billet Timing Set
Manley .080 Wall Ball / Ball Pushrods
PRW Stainless Roller Rocker Kit
Indy 1 x 4 Intake (Single or Dual Plane) Ported
Powerbond SFI Harmonic Balancer
Fel Pro Race Gaskets
MSD Pro Billet Distributor
MSD Plug Wires
MP Distributor Holdown
ARP Head Bolts
Cast Valley Plate
Cast Valve Covers / Studs
Roller Cam Thrust Plate / Bearing
Oil Pan Bolts
Harmonic Balancer Bolt
MP Chrome Timing Cover
1967coronet440
Well-Known Member
Cleveland power and performance has plenty of turnkey hellcat pallets ready to go, also 6.1&6.4 hemis
wyrmrider
Well-Known Member
I'd want the specs on all the parts and who actually makes them
which lifters
which springs
who makes the valves and which series
who grinds the cam and which cam
get some dyno sheets - usually you do not want top end only power at the expense of midrange or eve low end
would you put that much money into a stock block? especially if you are going to turn the rpm you will have to turn to get 650
does it include a broom?
which lifters
which springs
who makes the valves and which series
who grinds the cam and which cam
get some dyno sheets - usually you do not want top end only power at the expense of midrange or eve low end
would you put that much money into a stock block? especially if you are going to turn the rpm you will have to turn to get 650
does it include a broom?
Sweet5ltr
Well-Known Member
Just a 5-minute parts list:
$300-$500 for usable block/core.
$2,000 (+/-) for the machine work and short block assembly.
$2,100 balanced stroker kit.
$200 oil pan.
$100 oil pump.
$500 ARP bolts (+/-).
$600 MSD 6AL-2 + MSD Distributor
$50 coil.
$100 spark plug wires.
$50 spark plugs.
$400 Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump.
$250 in fuel line for forward/return setup.
$150 for a fuel pressure regulator from Aeromotive.
$200 for all sorts of AN fittings that are required.
$100 for a fuel filter.
$2,000 Trickflow Heads or CNC ported Edelbrocks.
$500 rocker arms.
$200 pushrods.
$1,000 Roller camshaft & lifters.
$100 valve springs.
$300 intake.
$1000-2,000 (TBI/MPFI EFI) or $1,000 carburetor setup + jets/air bleeds/pv's/etc for tuning
$200 Wideband 02 gauge
$800-$1,000 TTI headers
$300 mufflers / exhaust system
This is already $13,900 +/-. This is why you purchase a newer generation Hemi with factory EFI. Anyway you look at it, it's going to cost $10,000 or more (buying used parts) to make a somewhat reliable 650hp N/A everyday driver from an engine block that's 40-years old with countless numbers of heat/cooling cycles or 500-540hp N/A from a newer engine with all related components to make it run, that will probably outlast the owner in terms of reliability.
$300-$500 for usable block/core.
$2,000 (+/-) for the machine work and short block assembly.
$2,100 balanced stroker kit.
$200 oil pan.
$100 oil pump.
$500 ARP bolts (+/-).
$600 MSD 6AL-2 + MSD Distributor
$50 coil.
$100 spark plug wires.
$50 spark plugs.
$400 Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump.
$250 in fuel line for forward/return setup.
$150 for a fuel pressure regulator from Aeromotive.
$200 for all sorts of AN fittings that are required.
$100 for a fuel filter.
$2,000 Trickflow Heads or CNC ported Edelbrocks.
$500 rocker arms.
$200 pushrods.
$1,000 Roller camshaft & lifters.
$100 valve springs.
$300 intake.
$1000-2,000 (TBI/MPFI EFI) or $1,000 carburetor setup + jets/air bleeds/pv's/etc for tuning
$200 Wideband 02 gauge
$800-$1,000 TTI headers
$300 mufflers / exhaust system
This is already $13,900 +/-. This is why you purchase a newer generation Hemi with factory EFI. Anyway you look at it, it's going to cost $10,000 or more (buying used parts) to make a somewhat reliable 650hp N/A everyday driver from an engine block that's 40-years old with countless numbers of heat/cooling cycles or 500-540hp N/A from a newer engine with all related components to make it run, that will probably outlast the owner in terms of reliability.
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