Maybe I missed it but I don't see any reference to how your fuel system is set-up. Would you please elaborate? Do you have the BLUE Fitech wire hooked to the 'tach' terminal on your HEI?
Cranks but won't start
- Thread starter diesel_lv
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diesel_lv
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I am using a DUI HEI system, Stock electronic distributor with a HEI module connected to an aluminum heat sink underneath and their coil. I connect the blue Fitech wire to the negative on the coil for tach signal.
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
Turned on Fitech handheld controller and went to rpm page, cranked engine and shows no cranking rpm. Fitech will not feed fuel after initial prime with no signal. Pulled #7 spark plug, much easier, and laid it against ground, cranked engine and no spark. Hmmmmm..... Checked power to coil, yep, got power. Checked ground with engine off, yep, got ground. With ignition keyed, put jumper with test light between positive battery terminal and negative terminal on coil, test light had the dimmest glow of a flash, wouldn't even call it a flash. Could hardly tell it glowed. Changed the HEI module on distributor and same results. Coil gets constant power while cranking too. Somewhere either in the distributor (pick up coil), HEI module or coil, something is amiss. I'll be calling Performance Distributors, DUI distributor, tomorrow. Unless someone has any idea I am missing. I definitely hate spark chasing, but does explain no start with starter fluid. Doesn't explain why originally it would carb fart and exhaust backfire, I thought you had to have spark for that.
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You do have to have spark, but supplied at the right time and intensity. Check out Page 6 of your Fitech Installation Manual. "Required only if timing control is NOT used". On HEI distributors, the BLUE wire hooks to the TACH terminal on the module. Does your DUI distributor have a tach terminal? If so, move the blue wire to it.
Also, your fuel system?
And I would be very careful about 'jumping' connections on EFI. Very easy to crap the ECU. These aren't carburetors...
Also, your fuel system?
And I would be very careful about 'jumping' connections on EFI. Very easy to crap the ECU. These aren't carburetors...
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
A DUI HEI tri power distributor is a factory electronic distributor w a HEI module attached to it on an aluminum heat sink. Very simple, the pick up could attaches to one side of HEI module, then the other side of module atraches to the factory style 45k coil. Per Fitech instructions, blue wire connects to "tach" output on large cap HEI distributors. Small cap, what I'm using, the blue goes to the negative on the coil.
Understand what you're saying. It'll be interesting to see what Fitech says. Hopefully, they can trouble shoot it successfully. BTW, when I prime my system and don't start it, you can definitely see and smell evidence of the fuel squirt if you look into the venturies.
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
Called DUI this morning. Said to check the pick up coil clearance to be .005 or less. It was more. Loosened adjusting screw and the whole assembly was loose and bent. Had one in my old electronic ignition. Swapped them out and got spark. Held throttle open a little and cranked. Tried to start but backfire out throttle body and flames. I'm assuming this is too much advance but not sure. I rotate distributor counter clockwise to retard timing, still get backfire out of throttle body and flame. Cannot rotate counter clockwise anymore, on hold with Comp Cams for technical support from them. Cam has a lobe separation of 110 degrees. In my head I'm thinking I may need to pull the intermediate shaft and rotate it one tooth and then reinstall distributor. Does this sound logical? If so, do I rotate it one tooth clockwise or counter clockwise to retard initial timing and then allow me to advance it up to where I may need?
So with the slot lined up with the camshaft at tdc on #1 you still don't have enough adjustment area?
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
The slot on the intermediate shaft is cocked a little left or a little right of being lined up with the crank shaft depending on which tooth I drop it down on but it will not line up exactly in line with the crank shaft. I went with the front of the slot barely pointing toward the passenger side, "little right". At that point, valve cover off, both valves closed, finger pushed out of #1 spark plug hole, hand rotate last couple degrees till zero on new Fluid damper SFI balancer lined up with the timing tab. At that point, I can rotate the distributor about 10+ degrees retard (counter clockwise) and well over 20 degrees advance (clockwise). Is it possible that the new balancer and pointer are not exactly at 0? Should the intermediate shaft be lined up exactly in line with the crank shaft at TDC?
Unless you are building a 'factory correct' engine, it makes NO difference where the slot in the shaft is positioned. What IS important is that when the motor is on TDC #1 compression stroke, the rotor is pointing at the #1 spark plug terminal in the distributor cap...
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
Yes, exactly. I was just wondering if my timing pointer or balancer my be off and I'm adjusting from an incorrect 0 degrees. I'm trying to find a piston stop in my hillbilly tweeker town and called all 4 stores and no one has one. Guess I'll be ordering one and waiting 2 weeks so I can verify TDC on the balancer/pointer and then verify the distributor.
Don't laugh to hard. On VW's set timing mark on crank pull to TDC. With ignition on and coil wire near a ground slowly turned dist until there was a spark. Then turned dist for some advance, done that way you get spark then turn dist CW a little.
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Make a piston stop out of an old spark plug. Knock out porcelain 1/4" bolt put thread end so it go in chamber and put a nut on tack weld it. Or loctite. Do Not use starter to turn engine, my disclaimer.
Really depends on if you are using a vac advance on a bb or not. There's a limited adjustment range before interference with heater hoses, coil, plug wires, etc. The advance canister pointing towards #1 plug is pretty much a happy medium for that adjustment along with room for the hose. I have mine @ 16° btdc at idle and it still points towards #1.
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
Just gonna buy a metric bolt that is same thread as spark plug. Bring piston close to tdc then thread it in to touch. Then hand crank backward to stop again and check. Should work.Make a piston stop out of an old spark plug. Knock out porcelain 1/4" bolt put thread end so it go in chamber and put a nut on tack weld it. Or loctite. Do Not use starter to turn engine, my disclaimer.
Glad it works for you. The point I wanted to make is that the position of the slot on the distributor intermediate shaft has NOTHING to do with an engine starting or running. O/P is trying to get the engine started and the slot position is irrelevant... Another thing I hear constantly is that the rotor has to point at #1 spark-plug when dropping the distributor into an engine. This is confusing to NEW mechanics. The rotor has to point to the #1 spark-plug WIRE TERMINAL in the distributor cap when the engine is on TDC compression stroke.
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
I understand that you can have it perpendicular to the crank as long as you have the plugs on the cap where #1 is where rotor is pointing. My question was to find out if possibly my balancer or pointer were not correct. If my balancer or pointer are not in their correct place and I am using the zero marks on them for TDC to begin setting my distributor, then I may be too far advanced at my starting point or too far retarded. I did find TDC and thankfully it is where the 0 on balancer and the pointer line up. Then with distributor out of engine and cap on, draw a line on the distributor body where the #1 spark plug wire bulge is at. Remove cap and continue line up onto lip of distributor body. In my case, the slot in the intermediate shaft points just a hair towards the passenger side with the engine at true TDC. I bumped the engine around until it was coming back up on compression TDC then hand cranked it to 8 degrees on balancer and pointer. put distributor in and lined the rotor up with the line on the lip of the distributor body. This should put it at 8 degrees BTDC for initial start. Now that I have confirmed that the distributor is where it needs to be, I've got to remove all my spark plugs because they are all fouled now. The prime on the FI is extremely rich. I'm researching now how to program it way leaner for the prime. Apparently it has a range of 299% multiplier down to -100% multiplier and some people actually have to go all the way down to that. I'm going to reduce it quite a bit and see if I get anything. Hoping I don't have to remove all the plugs and wipe them all off.
Remember that every time you turn the key on it primes, so if you've been trying multiple times to start it, you'll have a load of fuel. There is a way to stop it from priming in the instructions. I have reset my prime fuel down to 100 on my dual set-up. Does your distributor base timing show 8* on the handheld? How many wires do you have on the coil + post? What did Fitech suggest? Bryce seems to be the go-to guy.
diesel_lv
Well-Known Member
I am using stand alone ignition so Fitech shows nothing, only reads rpm signal. I have tried "Many" times so yes, it is flooded I'm sure. I just reduced it down to 20% it came preset at 179%. Letting it sit over night and taking a mental break at my corner bar, beer :30!!!! Then tomorrow start again fresh.
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I don't think that's a bolt thread is it? Anyway...
Made myself a Piston Stop for finding TDC with the heads on. Things you will need:
Long reach spark plug
3/8 x 16 x 2 1/4 bolt
Hack saw
5/16 drill bit
3/8 x 16 tap
Cut the shoulder that's holding the porcelain all the way around. Don't saw straight through. Turn the plug as you go, stopping when you hit the porcelain. Tap around the hex on the plug to release the glue that's holding it in. Cut off the ground strap and tap the electrode and porcelain out. Also remove the sealing ring on the threads.
Useing a 5/16 drill bit, drill through the center. The inside diameter is already 5/16 but there is a shoulder halfway down. Follow up with a 3/8 x 16 thread tap.
Use a 2 1/4 bolt with at least 1 1/4 of thread.
That's all there is to it
To use the stop:
Remove all the spark plugs in the engine.
Find the piston top, by turning the crank by hand, useing a wire, or what I like to use, a plastic wire tie, in the #1 plug hole. Try to find the TDC by hand first before inserting the tool. Then back if off just a little. Then insert the tool with the bolt backed off. Run the bolt in until you feel it just touch the piston. Make a mark on the damper.
Now rotate the crank in the opposite direction until you feel it touch the stop. Go slow and let the compression bleed off. When the piston contacts the stop, make a mark on the damper.
Half the distance between the marks is your TDC.
Fine tuning where you set the bolt, can narrow the distance between your marks. A little practice and patience will get you good results. Great for checking your dampner's accuracy.
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