Drum brakes, all new, pulls left hard, hub still gets HOT

[moparedtn]

You guys know the story already....
I've just recently replaced all the 11" drum brakes at all four corners,
using all US-Made hardware, wheel cylinders, hoses - and yes, even the shoes
(Porterfield).
At this point, the only parts left original are whatever Fred has for a distribution
block and the hard line headed back to the rears.
The master cylinder is the correct bolt-through-the-lid replacement and fairly new.

I had the issue with the left front hub being all beat to hell, so thanks to a fellow
FBBO member, a new one now resides there and looks/works just fine, along with
new bearings, seal, races, the whole she-bang.

Everything has gone over...and....over....and over yet again and more than once,
I thought I had it figured out.
Today's drive, however - the hard pull to the left once the brakes got some heat
in them returned, along with the accompanying hot wheel center when I reached
down to check it out.

At this point, I've about run out of things it could be - unless something funny is
happening with that distribution block or whatever it is??
Is there a check valve involved between the sides on the front brakes?

 

[snakeoil24]

Brake shoes could be riveted on backing shoes lightly off please measure and also mic the thickness

 

[dan juhasz]

is that wheel self adjusting tighter as its being driven or does the adjustment feel the same

 

[moparedtn]

Brake shoes could be riveted on backing shoes lightly off please measure and also mic the thickness

They're bonded (no rivets) and freshly made (Porterfield makes them to order), but yeah, it does occur
to me that as a last resort, I could swap sides on the shoes and see if the problem moves with them?

 

[snakeoil24]

They're bonded (no rivets) and freshly made (Porterfield makes them to order), but yeah, it does occur
to me that as a last resort, I could swap sides on the shoes and see if the problem moves with them?

It can be ever so slight also swap the star wheel and the wheel cylinder

 

[moparedtn]

is that wheel self adjusting tighter as its being driven or does the adjustment feel the same

All the hardware is brand new and special care was taken to make sure the correct adjusters were installed
on the correct sides/positions - but there's always the chance I suppose?

 

[snakeoil24]

check shoes if warped

 

[moparedtn]

It can be ever so slight also swap the star wheel and the wheel cylinder

Can't do that. Adjusters are specifically L or R.

 

[Jc cooper]

No ck valve that I know of but the distribution block the way I understand only deals with the frt to the rear in case of a brake failure, in the old days as a young mechanic at dealership, we always fit the shoes to the drum by way of a sanding device , on my 67 gtx had to sand aftermarket shoes to fit the inside radius to get a nice smooth brake action or it would get hot . Or drive till it wore in which is not acceptable in my book or probably yours! Things expand with heat so if shoes don’t fit and adjusted tight or with the necessary drag old school of course, maybe with expansion it’s causing a problem! Just thinking !

 

[RJRENTON]

You guys know the story already....
I've just recently replaced all the 11" drum brakes at all four corners,
using all US-Made hardware, wheel cylinders, hoses - and yes, even the shoes
(Porterfield).
At this point, the only parts left original are whatever Fred has for a distribution
block and the hard line headed back to the rears.
The master cylinder is the correct bolt-through-the-lid replacement and fairly new.

I had the issue with the left front hub being all beat to hell, so thanks to a fellow
FBBO member, a new one now resides there and looks/works just fine, along with
new bearings, seal, races, the whole she-bang.

Everything has gone over...and....over....and over yet again and more than once,
I thought I had it figured out.
Today's drive, however - the hard pull to the left once the brakes got some heat
in them returned, along with the accompanying hot wheel center when I reached
down to check it out.

At this point, I've about run out of things it could be - unless something funny is
happening with that distribution block or whatever it is??
Is there a check valve involved between the sides on the front brakes?

It has been my experience that if the vehicle pulls (LEFT or right), the opposite side wheel is not working with the same brake effectiveness. Are both wheel cylinders the same bore? Are the shoes installed correctly....primary shoe and secondary shoe in the correct position? Are the wheel bearings set with the same end play? Are both self adjusters in the correct orientation with the same amount of preliminary drag? Just asking a couple of questions, that I'm sure you've thought of b4...but it never hurts to ask again....
BOB RENTON

 

[Durandal25]

Sir, are the brakes releasing well?

 

[moparedtn]

is that wheel self adjusting tighter as its being driven or does the adjustment feel the same

I just went out to the shop - I had to know!
Jacked up the whole front end and spun one, then the other front wheel.
They are pretty much identical right now - pretty much perpetual motion, spinning freely with just the
slightest drag at one spot in the rotation.
Ching....ching....ching...
That sort of thing, very light drag.

I really am down to eliminating possibilities to either something happening in the distribution area or the shoes
themselves displaying some rather distasteful hot operation characteristics?

 

[moparedtn]

Sir, are the brakes releasing well?

Yes sir - please refer to my post #12.
Dang things spin as sweet and quiet as can be, with only a slight drag at one spot on every rotation.

 

[69 Sleeper Bee]

Lift the front up and spin the wheels and see if lefts are grabbing more than the rights. Cold and after a drive hot.
Could be adjusters or sticking cylinders or front flex line internal problems.
Edit. Just saw post 12 so try when hot and see what happens

 

[moparedtn]

It has been my experience that if the vehicle pulls (LEFT or right), the opposite side wheel is not working with the same brake effectiveness. Are both wheel cylinders the same bore? Are the shoes installed correctly....primary shoe and secondary shoe in the correct position? Are the wheel bearings set with the same end play? Are both self adjusters in the correct orientation with the same amount of preliminary drag? Just asking a couple of questions, that I'm sure you've thought of b4...but it never hurts to ask again....
BOB RENTON

Quick answer - YES to all, Bob.
In this case, the "real" clue is how the drivers' side reacts so much differently once underway from the right,
since they evidently both start in exactly the same condition/position and all the components are new, in the
correct position and are of like brand and sizes.

Unless there's something in the fluid distribution system that's not allowing pressure to back off the left side -
I'm more inclined to believe at this point that something physically reacts differently to the left side shoe(s)
once some heat has been generated down the road.

I just pretty much (again!) eliminated an adjuster doing something funny by going out there and jacking
the thing up and spinning both sides to compare.
Right now, with the car several hours after the last drive, you couldn't tell one side from the other simply
from spinning the wheels.

Whatever the issue is, it's specifically occurs when the car has gotten a few miles and a couple brake
actions acted upon it - and it does pull to the left slightly even when just
going down the road, accompanied by a very heated up wheel/hub to the touch
on the left compared to the right.

 

[moparedtn]

Just saw post 12 so try when hot and see what happens

Yep, that's all that's left to "test" really - getting them hot, then immediately getting them up and
spinning to see what's different from cold.

 

[69 Sleeper Bee]

Also that ching ching ching you hear could be heating up the drum and hub when driving and cause that problem.

 

[Jc cooper]

Once I did a brake job on a pick up , complete , new everything including hoses frame to drum , truck would do the same thing as yours after hot , with hot fluid , defective replacement hose ! Just saying ! Parts are not so dependable anymore!

 

[moparedtn]

Also that ching ching ching you hear could be heating up the drum and hub when driving and cause that problem.

If it were different than the other side (or more severe), I'd tend to agree.
It isn't. There's barely any drag at all.

 

[65wgn440]

Possible bad brake hose on LF. Hose/ fluid gets hot and will not allow fluid to freely flow back towards master after brake application. Maybe take it out, get brakes nice and hot, and jack it up as soon as you get back home and see if that wheel is much harder to spin than right. If it is , quick as you can, open bleeder and then see if it spins easier. Sometimes you can tell if you have a bad hose just by opening one front bleeder at a time, with master cylinder top off, and see if they gravity bleed themselves, and compare the flow rates from each side. Obviously an internally ruptured hose will not flow as well. Also, I adjust front drums to just complete one full tire rotation with a moderate amount of spin force, with cold brakes.