Early hemi motor numbers

[64spconvert]

I have a 50's Hemi with the numbers " m354 - | 4 |3 ".
this number is behind the water pump and center on the block between the heads.
I was told that it was a 1954 354 from a school bus. I know it came from a bus, but the 354 didn't come out until 1956.
I have search some web sites and this numbers does not come up.
any Hemi guys out there know what year or cubic inch. any info. or web sites will be appreciated.

View attachment 978388 View attachment 978388

thanks View attachment 978495

 

[Thrashingcows]

I used to be into the early hemi's a long time ago...I'm pretty sure the "M" stands for a marine application. Can you pull the valve covers and get casting numbers off the heads?

 

[Thrashingcows]

If you can get some casting numbers this site might help you identify what you have....

http://www.thehemi.com/castings.php

 

[64spconvert]

I used to be into the early hemi's a long time ago...I'm pretty sure the "M" stands for a marine application. Can you pull the valve covers and get casting numbers off the heads?

marine engines do start with M, but the other numbers are in a different sequence. not even close. I also help take this engine out of the school bus. it is a running motor so I hate to take the heads off. thanks

 

[Scott Engelhardt]

That would look great i n a vintage pickup

 

[64spconvert]

That would look great i n a vintage pickup

Nice looking hard top Scott ! I have a white 64.

 

[65wgn440]

That's pretty interesting. I have two 331's (1955's) and a 354 (1956). I have never seen a front set-up like that. Does it have an extended bellhousing ? Maybe basically an industrial engine that was also put in busses ??

 

[69Bee]

I will look at my book tomorrow at work, but right off I see:

1) Early ('51-'54) non-water crossover heads
2) Just below the fuel pump block-off plate, you can see the lower cooling ports between the block and timing cover
3) The timing cover is indicative of the early ('51 to '54) water intake. Later ('55 +) had the oil fill in the valley pan
4) Oil pan looks like a long sump also indicative of marine and industrial engine

Pictures of the other side would help for more details. The 354 was introduced in '56, so this is likely a marine or industrial engine. I will try to remember to look it up tomorrow.

 

[64BEL]

Here are a couple of resources for early Hemis:

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/forums/the-hokey-***-message-board.5/

http://www.hothemiheads.com/

 

[69Bee]

There is no clear ID of the stamping "M354", but it is definately a marine, or HD truck. I digress from industrial because they usually begin with "IND". how long is a valve cover? Show us a few pics of the rear (both sides).

 

[64spconvert]

thanks for all the responses.
here is a picture of the original intake or the one that came with the engine, it has the water inlet (thermostat).
the Valve covers are 20 1/4 ".
here are more Pics.
thanks 69bee

 

[69Bee]

Should be a Chrysler (20.5" flange to flange), and it is a '54. There is no extended bellhousing ('51-'53), and like I said before, you can see where the timing cover pooches out at the bottom side. This is because the early (pre '55) had a different cooling configuration. A quick conformation is the lack of water crossover ports on the ends of the heads. Also, the thermostat is a dead give-away for a water/intake. The later ones ('55 and up) have a dry intake (like a BB Mopar) and the thermostat is on the water pump monstrosity.

All of the marine stampings I have in the book are "M45...", so I am quite confident that you have a '54 hemi marine block with either industrial or marine TC and a later 4bbl intake. In the valley area on the passenger side are two casting numbers. This will tell you the size and date of casting.

The bad news.... '54 hemis only had 7.5:1CR, and bumped to 8.5:1CR in '55. If you build it, put the '55 pistons in, or Ross forged if you want a higher CR. My '55 331 has forged pistons (going 10:1CR), and got about 6.5K in the short block. Next will be the aluminum heads, stainless or aluminum roller rockers, short tunnel intake and dual quad FI. $$$$$$ I bought a new CNC Cylinder Hone for work, so my mad money is short for the moment and the hemi sits as a short block in the corner...

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

well 1954 was a 331 car truck and ind motor , but 356 wasn't not around until 1956 and it was car truck and ind . so the difference is bore size . the strokes are the same . but that sad , turbo or blower can get the power out of it . low enough c/r for the extra boost and great heads for a boosted motor . just bolt on the power no need to mess with anything but valve springs due to the boost level . so call hotheads or weiand or dyers . not a fan of bbs . and there are a lot of old school guys still building setups for those early hemis . that is what i'd do . lol .

 

[dart4forte]

well 1954 was a 331 car truck and ind motor , but 356 wasn't not around until 1956 and it was car truck and ind . so the difference is bore size . the strokes are the same . but that sad , turbo or blower can get the power out of it . low enough c/r for the extra boost and great heads for a boosted motor . just bolt on the power no need to mess with anything but valve springs due to the boost level . so call hotheads or weiand or dyers . not a fan of bbs . and there are a lot of old school guys still building setups for those early hemis . that is what i'd do . lol . View attachment 978859 View attachment 978860 View attachment 978861

Man, you have some cool ****!!! I’ll have to get down your way sometime. Say, are you into old Power Wagons?

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

just a couple w series in my stuff , this 41 wc and a 70 d400 i'm converting to a w500 with american rockwell drives and transfer case , and a 72 w200 crewcab . and i have all the running gear from a 75 ramcharger , 74 w200 running gear coming and i've got a couple cj-5's . i guess you could say i have 4x4's , lol

 

[FU64RY]

Here's a 331 I restored.
I have a 331 industrial for sale. Needs overhauled.

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

very cool , i've got a hobart welder with a chrysler flat 6 in it . she still runs .

 

[POMONAMISSEL]

this is a 54 331 ind block and heads i plan on putting together . it will be a little racey , not sure about the algon injection although it is trick looking , and different than hilborns . could even supercharge it . but it would be an alky or meth burner with those pistons .

 

[64spconvert]

Should be a Chrysler (20.5" flange to flange), and it is a '54. There is no extended bellhousing ('51-'53), and like I said before, you can see where the timing cover pooches out at the bottom side. This is because the early (pre '55) had a different cooling configuration. A quick conformation is the lack of water crossover ports on the ends of the heads. Also, the thermostat is a dead give-away for a water/intake. The later ones ('55 and up) have a dry intake (like a BB Mopar) and the thermostat is on the water pump monstrosity.

All of the marine stampings I have in the book are "M45...", so I am quite confident that you have a '54 hemi marine block with either industrial or marine TC and a later 4bbl intake. In the valley area on the passenger side are two casting numbers. This will tell you the size and date of casting.

The bad news.... '54 hemis only had 7.5:1CR, and bumped to 8.5:1CR in '55. If you build it, put the '55 pistons in, or Ross forged if you want a higher CR. My '55 331 has forged pistons (going 10:1CR), and got about 6.5K in the short block. Next will be the aluminum heads, stainless or aluminum roller rockers, short tunnel intake and dual quad FI. $$$$$$ I bought a new CNC Cylinder Hone for work, so my mad money is short for the moment and the hemi sits as a short block in the corner...

I pull off the intake manifold and found the casting number "1619829-7.
I found this "1619829 = 1956-1957-1958 354 Hemi".
so I am thinking that it was cast 354 and then went to the marine side ?
I still have issues with the stamped numbers behind the water pump " "M354-|4|3".
I searched M354-|4|3 and nothing comes up, as 69Bee says all marine engine start with M45.
thanks guys

 

[69Bee]

I pull off the intake manifold and found the casting number "1619829-7.
I found this "1619829 = 1956-1957-1958 354 Hemi".
so I am thinking that it was cast 354 and then went to the marine side ?
I still have issues with the stamped numbers behind the water pump " "M354-|4|3".
I searched M354-|4|3 and nothing comes up, as 69Bee says all marine engine start with M45.
thanks guys

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My "Tex Smith" book says that the Chrysler trucks and marine engines used the early front covers which would explain that. The block casting does identify it as a 354, and the front cover and long oil pan acknowledge it as a marine engine, but what is the date code to the right of the block casting?