Energy realities bites millenials

[Coronet 14]

I get calls for solar once a week. It's not cost effective for me. I don't get a tax rebate to off set the cost. The cost of solar would exceed my monthly electric bill. Then add the cost of electricity to my solar bill for using more than I'm producing with the panels. Solar would be so much higher. Solar is great if you can afford it. The Tax rebate I feel keeps prices for Solar higher. That is just my opinion

 

[Photon440]

........Why is hydro usage so expensive to the average household when every large city leaves the lights on in unoccupied high rise buildings. And lastly, why does an energy saving bulb cost 500% more than a regular bulb ? If the porch light were left on for a year, it would still cost me way less than buying a $23 bulb. .....

I don't know, is hydro expensive? My power bill is $68 Canadian each month, is that a lot? And I rarely get tempted by $23 bulbs, instead buying the $5.97 (Canadian) LED bulbs for most rooms, or 2 for $14 for higher powered (9.5 watt / 750 lumins) ones. I did try the ebay LED bulbs for a couple of dollars but found them to be not bright enough.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Agree with Yatzee's quote.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

 

[NJRR]

Nothing wrong with using it as a supplemental power,
if you have the means to do so, good for you...
Go for it !!
But as a stand alone power source, neither is very effective/efficient,
especially cost wise...

Bingo !!!!!

 

[biomedtechguy]

We missed out on federal and state tax credits for solar where I live in South Louisiana. The gist was if we purchased a $25,000 solar system, the federal and state tax credits would have covered $20k of it, and the last $5k would be made up in electricity bill savings over a couple of years. The size and cost of the solar system was determined by what our roof could handle, but also what our savings would have been, and the limit of the tax credits.
A larger, more expensive system would make sense if we were about 30 years younger, never moved to a different house.
The kicker is cost of solar system equipment, installation, and maintenance vs savings on the electricity bill. This formula is one of the reasons for "the war on coal and fossil fuels". If the government regulates the power industry and the fuels they use in a manner that drives UP the cost of producing electricity, that means higher utility bill prices and alternative energy sources look more appealing. The problem of higher electricity prices is usually offset by government subsidies to low income people, at the cost of the taxpayers, and that usually benefits one party over another, so it's a political victory by making their constituents more dependent on government for basic needs.
Finally some of the Louisiana residents who "applied for" solar tax credits within the timeframe allowed, financed or purchased their solar system expecting a tax credit, never received them because of the funky way the applications were processed. In other words they were led to believe that they were due a tax credit, but after spending the money they were notified that the funds for the program were exhausted.
In other words

 

[G.V.Charger]

Most people do not pay attention to their own bills, when asked what they pay per kilowatt hour (here in Canada)they usually do not know , and it may not matter to them, until I point out alternative energy costs...
Here in Ontario, numbers are 7.7 cents per the first 1000 kWH, and 9 cents per kWH after that.
That is what we are charged, simple right, well, the first wave of home, commercial, solar program the government set up, paid those producers,.....80.cents a kWH.... do the math, buy it for 80 cents and sell it for 8 cents, the first program started 20 years ago, second program paid 60 cents, ten years ago, and they have now leveled that down to 30 cents.
So they are still buying at 30 and possibly selling 9 cents, you know who will be paying up the difference....

 

[747mopar]

I don't know about you guys but I've recently noticed that LED replacement bulbs have become reasonably priced and I love it!!! Think I've converted everything in the house to LED and the other huge benefit is a 40 watt fixure can now handle much more wattage (comparing REPLACEMENT wattages).

 

[biomedtechguy]

I like LED lights because they put out much more light that heat and aren't subject to damage from vibrations or shock like filaments.

 

[Richard Cranium]

LED lights are much better, in lighting power and for the environment, than those hideous "curly fry" fluorescent light bulbs that the gooberment was shoving down our throats, which again proves that private industry almost always does things better.

 

[khryslerkid]

Millennials Are Well-Meaning but Misguided on Energy Policy

"Most of the millennials I’ve spoken to drastically overestimate the amount of energy generated from wind and solar power in the United States. I am often met with incredulous looks when I explain the United States generates only about 2 percent of its total energy consumption from wind and solar combined and that these two sources of power produce less energy for the nation than burning wood.

Just four sources of energy account for 89.5 percent of the total energy produced in the United States. Thirty-five percent comes from oil, 28 percent from natural gas, 18 percent from coal, and 8.5 percent from nuclear."

https://www.insidesources.com/millennials-well-meaning-misguided-energy-policy/

 

[Richard Cranium]

Millennials Are Well-Meaning but Misguided on Energy Policy

"Most of the millennials I’ve spoken to drastically overestimate the amount of energy generated from wind and solar power in the United States. I am often met with incredulous looks when I explain the United States generates only about 2 percent of its total energy consumption from wind and solar combined and that these two sources of power produce less energy for the nation than burning wood.

Just four sources of energy account for 89.5 percent of the total energy produced in the United States. Thirty-five percent comes from oil, 28 percent from natural gas, 18 percent from coal, and 8.5 percent from nuclear."

https://www.insidesources.com/millennials-well-meaning-misguided-energy-policy/

That's the same article (but from a different source) that I posted on page 1 nearly 3 years ago.

Blame it on Pops for dragging up this old thread!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Blame it on Pops for dragging up this old thread!

I think Pops gets blamed for all kinds of post and thread grave robbing and unholy resurrections...

As far as I'm concerned, his contributions in the blue forum make up for any indiscretions.

 

[NJRR]

I live in North Jersey, right on the New York state border. Normally, PSE&G provides electricity for all of North Jersey. However, for some reason, my grid is on the Orange-Rockland Utilities service, which is a NY company. When solar first started, they were offering huge state rebates for new systems. The cost of a 7kW solar system was around $42k but with all the rebates and tax credits would have only been about $12k. I was going to bite the bullet until I found out I was not eligible for the NJ state rebate, about $10k+, because I was not a PSE&G customer. NY had a similar rebate thru ORU, but I was not a NY state resident, so not eligible. So basically, it would have doubled my cost which I deemed not worth it. F the bureaucrats !!!!

 

[khryslerkid]

That's the same article (but from a different source) that I posted on page 1 nearly 3 years ago.

Blame it on Pops for dragging up this old thread!

 

[Budnicks]

repost, still relevant/true today, some almost 3 years later

Green energy $$$ grab, it's not a stand alone deal for wind or solar
unless it's way overkill you still need batteries an inverter to convert DC to AC
all of which have maintenance issues & those related costs to them also,
batteries don't last very long, inverters go bad...

Takes room too, a 6'x2' panel if it 100% efficient is 75 watts,
that takes allot of surface area, it can be done thou, something to consider thou...

You can pay allot of electric bills from your local supplier for the easily
$20-$30K plus from scratch...
Plus that you'd spend to go solar &/or wind "assist", efficiently/effectively
to even close to have power off the grid so to speak or to have electric co.
actually buy back your unused power supply...
Maybe double that cost/#'s if you have a large house & a pool, AC, hot tub/spa,
heated garage etc., welders air compressors & especially in northern/colder regions,
or all electric household appliances etc., there are some rebate deals &
some tax breaks but you have to spend the $$$ initially, to receive it usually too...

IMO there's allot of eco-scams & nefarious "green energy" co.'s out there too,
where you don't own the equipment, or the rights to the rebates or your
tax breaks are given up to the installer/suppliers, basically your leasing the stuff...
Or just Chinese junk panels & turbines...

but it can be done

But it's certainly not really affordable by any stretch of the imagination,
it's a con job mostly an up-sale, for self-guilt save the planet, green $$$ grab deal
to a newer growing industry, that has lots of opportunities for growth,
with allot of false reporting of it's actual real effectiveness/efficiency...

Nothing wrong with using it as a supplemental power,
if you have the means to do so, good for you...
Go for it !!
But as a stand alone power source, neither is very effective/efficient,
especially cost wise...

Been there done that, I know all to well the initial costs, up-keep & ramifications,
do your research don't fall for the hype, don't just get duped/conned/gilt-ed into it
or fall for the unrealistic eco-sale pitches...

You still need wind & sun to actually bank the make power, for the battery storage,
room for the extra equipment, some HOA rules about roofs & laws/reg.s
county, city or state, w-t-f-e authorities, building dept. permits & regulations
that apply to all the above...

But also in cloudy areas, snowy or rainy or in valleys or in a heavily wooded shady
areas too etc. that don't have allot of wind &/or sun exposures,
it will be far less effective/efficient, lots of factors to consider...

Do your due diligence, don't get conned/duped, by the eco-guilt-green-$$$-scam...

My $0.02 cents of reality...

 

[G.V.Charger]

Had a 6 am meeting this morning with the man responsible for the wind farm north of Shelburne, On. He personally bought up the land, set up the plan, contacted a wind farm company, and they were happy enough to write him a cheque, and advised him, he was not needed. Yeah, they kicked him right out of there. So, as I was talking anaerobic digesters, he explained the pay out on the wind mills, 13 cents a kWH, Thought that was pretty low, however, cost to purchase and install one wind mill, 3 million, annual revenue from said wind mill, 800,000 approx., wow a 5 year payout on a 21 year contract....

Food for thought....
https://www.nbpower.com/blog/en/posts/2016/november/the-laforge-dairy-farm-a-biogas-success-story/

 

[Slap Stick]

How "green" is solar power? Where do the materials to make the solar panels come from?
And those tax credits? They don't come from government. They come from you and me.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Sounds like a large scale "Mr. Fusion".

 

[Lets Roll]

Reality will bite everyone hard if we have another one of these:
https://www.history.com/news/a-perfect-solar-superstorm-the-1859-carrington-event