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Energy realities bites millenials

Richard Cranium

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We all need to show this to all our dopey kids & grandkids who are brainwashed into thinking that solar and wind power is where our energy comes from.......




A recent USA Today/Rock the Vote survey of millennials shows 80 percent of them support transitioning to “mostly clean” or renewable energy by 2030. Although their hearts may be in the right place, few millennials appear to realize how much energy their lifestyle actually consumes, where this energy comes from, and how much it would cost to transition to a nation that’s powered predominantly by renewables by 2030.

As a millennial myself, I’m quite familiar with this phenomenon. Many of my peers don’t understand electricity doesn’t just come from the wall; email isn’t necessarily green because it isn’t printed on paper; and a lifestyle that revolves around binge-watching Netflix has a real impact on the environment.

One environmental group estimates U.S. data centers in 2013 consumed an estimated 91 billion kilowatt-hours of electricity, the same as the annual output of 34 large (500-megawatt) coal-fired power plants, and estimates are these data centers will consume the equivalent of 50 coal-fired power plants by 2030.

It’s ironic the generation that will consume more energy in their lifetimes than any before them, one that uses energy-gobbling technology for virtually every aspect of their lives — including dating apps, social media, finding a taxi, and even ordering from Taco Bell — can be so oblivious to how much energy they consume and where it comes from.

Most of the millennials I’ve spoken to drastically overestimate the amount of energy generated from wind and solar power in the United States. I am often met with incredulous looks when I explain the United States generates only about 2 percent of its total energy consumption from wind and solar combined and that these two sources of power produce less energy for the nation than burning wood.

Just four sources of energy account for 89.5 percent of the total energy produced in the United States. Thirty-five percent comes from oil, 28 percent from natural gas, 18 percent from coal, and 8.5 percent from nuclear.

These forms of energy dominate the mix because they are the most affordable sources and because renewables simply aren’t ready to be used as the country’s primary power sources. Wind and solar are unreliable; they generate energy only when the wind blows or the sun shines, and we have no way of storing this energy. Think of an electric car with no battery, and you will have an idea of why our power system can’t rely on renewables.

For these reasons, the U.S. Energy Information Administration, a division of the U.S. Department of Energy, estimates the world will still generate approximately 80 percent of its total energy from fossil fuels in 2040.

Surveys and polls are very susceptible to how the questions are worded. When questions offer people a presumed benefit, without discussing the costs or consequences of the policy in question, results are overwhelmingly positive. This was likely the case with this survey. If provided with all of the information, including the disadvantages, of renewables, millennials would likely be less enthusiastic about relying so heavily on renewable energy.



http://www.bostonherald.com/opinion..._were_saying_energy_reality_bites_millennials
 
I once had a buddy rant on how the world's power needs could be met with solar panels in the Sahara desert. After explaining "transmission losses" to him, I could see his brain go through the 12 steps of grief the rest of the night. When I shook his hand at the end of the night, he was almost at acceptance. Almost.
 
Alternative Power to your home suffers from the same problem as alternative fuels for vehicles, Delivery Network. No company wants to spend the billions it would take to provide a new delivery network (gas stations) and people dont want to spend tax dollars to pay for it. I'll stop there as this can easily spiral into a political debate. But you get the gist.

You can use Solar/Wind if you want to live off the grid. But you have to conserve energy and many things in a home are constant on. Good luck coming home to your off the grid house and not having enough energy to charge your electric car so you can go to work the next day.

Funny how no one takes into account what would happen if electric cars became the norm. The strain it would put on utilities. It's a novelty and PR right now. Shop here we have a charging station for your electric car. But what happens when an entire parking garage needs to be converted to having a charging station in every space? Who pays for the install and the energy needed to charge all those cars.

I realize that gasoline is a finite resource. But imagine wanting to take a road trip of 500-700 miles in an electric car. What used to take 8-10 hours will now take 2 days as you'll need to get a hotel room and spend the night so your electric car can charge up for the rest of the trip. Then the same thing on the way home. The road trip will become a thing of the past. I just dont think electric cars are the answer.

Solar/Wind would be nice, but at what cost?
 
The problem here is you can't rely on just one alternative but you need to bring several into play, Sure Solar/Wind on their own can't cut it but add in Geothermal, BioMass, District Energy etc. and altogether it can have a huge impact.

My girlfriend was a PM for the alternative energy side of a Hydro Company for 7 years and was just recruited by a huge auto parts manufacturer as they branch out into Solar racking and tracking.
 
No mention of geothermal or water turbines for power

I don't think that article was meant to be an exhaustive survey of US power generation, so missing a few is expected. That said, typically geothermal isn't used to 'create' energy, it's typically used in HVAC systems instead of a air condenser (either as a heat source in heating mode, or as a place to exhaust excess heat in AC mode). There are places like Iceland that use natural geothermals as a primary source of heat, but that's extremely regional.

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The problem here is you can't rely on just one alternative but you need to bring several into play, Sure Solar/Wind on their own can't cut it but add in Geothermal, BioMass, District Energy etc. and altogether it can have a huge impact.

Bingo. Intelligent deployment of alternative energy sources is a key to our national security, especially considering our ever increasing reliance on energy consuming technology. Anyone who thinks a nation as large and technologically advanced as ours can 'eliminate' the need for fossil fuels by 20XX just doesn't understand the industry.

I'll add this to the topic, this is why energy efficiency is critical as well. Though we shouldn't sell our souls for the sake of energy efficiency, we do need to invest in energy efficient technologies as a means of securing our future energy sources.
 
I volunteer at a radio station/music venue and we get over 60%of the station/bars energy needs from two banks of solar on the roof of the bar portion of the building. We are adding another bank of cells this year and should be 100% solar. With solar at this time, you got to think micro , your power needs not the towns. Old picture double the cells and add a 5k gal. cistern for rain water. https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3409064,-82.5399985,35m/data=!3m1!1e3
 
I volunteer at a radio station/music venue and we get over 60%of the station/bars energy needs from two banks of solar on the roof of the bar portion of the building. We are adding another bank of cells this year and should be 100% solar. With solar at this time, you got to think micro , your power needs not the towns. Old picture double the cells and add a 5k gal. cistern for rain water. https://www.google.com/maps/@27.3409064,-82.5399985,35m/data=!3m1!1e3

That's the key to solar right there. Solar is extremely inefficient and very expensive. The only way it can compete is by deploying it at the point of usage; thus avoiding transmission losses which globally is a colossal issue.
 
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Bingo. Intelligent deployment of alternative energy sources is a key to our national security, especially considering our ever increasing reliance on energy consuming technology. Anyone who thinks a nation as large and technologically advanced as ours can 'eliminate' the need for fossil fuels by 20XX just doesn't understand the industry.

I'll add this to the topic, this is why energy efficiency is critical as well. Though we shouldn't sell our souls for the sake of energy efficiency, we do need to invest in energy efficient technologies as a means of securing our future energy sources.

My point exactly it is not something that can be tackled Nationally but rather needs to be approached by region with a multi faceted approach.
 
My point exactly it is not something that can be tackled Nationally but rather needs to be approached by region with a multi faceted approach.

Yep, IMHO, if we continue to push energy efficiency, continue a blended approach to alternative energies, push fracking and the tehnoligies to extract from oil sands and shales, we will secure our energy needs for probably a century or more. Oh yeah, and drill baby drill!!
 
But other countries are getting more than the 2% solar/wind ratio. Germany is at 15% for these two, and rising. Meanwhile, in my province of British Columbia in Canada, 95% of our electricity is hydro power and the few areas where this doesn't reach are using natural gas fired plants.

As for solar transmission losses, the wires don't care if the electricity is solar, coal or nuclear. The losses are the same.
 
As for solar transmission losses, the wires don't care if the electricity is solar, coal or nuclear. The losses are the same.

True, which is why the solar market is focusing more on point of use installations, such as residential and commercial rooftops. This puts the power production at the point of use, which essentially eliminates transmission losses. This is the greatest strength of solar, simply because one can't normally install a gas or hydro turbine on their property. It's the only thing that makes solar viable for most markets.
 
Not to high jack this topic but it got me to wondering about a lot of things that most people would label me a lunatic for mentioning. So what happens to you if you don't leave your food set for five minutes after taking it out of the microwave? Is there such a thing as too many electronic frequencies travelling in the atmosphere. Can't even fathom the number of microwave cell towers, two way radios, garage door openers and satellite signals beaming to earth. I remember when the cops were worried about hand-held radar units being too close to their face and causing cancer. How many birds are killed each year by the money mongers that erect wind generators ? Why is hydro usage so expensive to the average household when every large city leaves the lights on in unoccupied high rise buildings. And lastly, why does an energy saving bulb cost 500% more than a regular bulb ? If the porch light were left on for a year, it would still cost me way less than buying a $23 bulb. Indeed the cost of convenience and power is tremendously high but sometimes you gotta sit back and put things in perspective. Something the new world, high tech generation doesn't give any thought to because it doesn't effect them personally - until their own hydro bill arrives. And if solar energy is so free of pollution, why can't I and many others afford to install it or at least get a tax cut for purchasing it ? We talk a good story when it comes to global warming and energy reduction but not everyone can afford to have the means to really achieve it.
 
But other countries are getting more than the 2% solar/wind ratio. Germany is at 15% for these two, and rising. Meanwhile, in my province of British Columbia in Canada, 95% of our electricity is hydro power and the few areas where this doesn't reach are using natural gas fired plants.

I agree with you - the US needs more natural gas fired power plants.

Hydro, on the other hand, isn't something you can just force feed into a region - either there is a huge river and just the right geology to support a massive dam or here isn't. Combine that with vast swaths of undeveloped land with the correct topography to turn it into a lake. It's places like BC, Nevada, etc, that are tailor made for hydro. Fact is that hydro is perhaps the most environmentally destructive power technologies, all things considered. There better not be an endangered fish that migrates in that river or or an endangered turtle that calls that flood able land it's home. This is why, here in the US many of the large hydro installations predate the Department of Environmental Protection's massive power grab which put it in charge of basically anything and everything. Here in 2016, The Hoover Dam would never be built.
 
Green energy $$$ grab, it's not a stand alone deal for wind or solar
unless it's way overkill you still need batteries an inverter to convert DC to AC
all of which have maintenance issues & those related costs to them also,
batteries don't last very long, inverters go bad...

Takes room too, a 6'x2' panel if it 100% efficient is 75 watts,
that takes allot of surface area, it can be done thou, something to consider thou...

You can pay allot of electric bills from your local supplier for the easily
$20-$30K plus from scratch...
Plus that you'd spend to go solar &/or wind "assist", efficiently/effectively
to even close to have power off the grid so to speak or to have electric co.
actually buy back your unused power supply...
Maybe double that cost/#'s if you have a large house & a pool, AC, hot tub/spa,
heated garage etc., welders air compressors & especially in northern/colder regions,
or all electric household appliances etc., there are some rebate deals &
some tax breaks but you have to spend the $$$ initially, to receive it usually too...

IMO there's allot of eco-scams & nefarious "green energy" co.'s out there too,
where you don't own the equipment, or the rights to the rebates or your
tax breaks are given up to the installer/suppliers, basically your leasing the stuff...
Or just Chinese junk panels & turbines...

but it can be done

But it's certainly not really affordable by any stretch of the imagination,
it's a con job mostly an up-sale, for self-guilt save the planet, green $$$ grab deal
to a newer growing industry, that has lots of opportunities for growth,
with allot of false reporting of it's actual real effectiveness/efficiency...

Nothing wrong with using it as a supplemental power,
if you have the means to do so, good for you...
Go for it !!
But as a stand alone power source, neither is very effective/efficient,
especially cost wise...

Been there done that, I know all to well the initial costs, up-keep & ramifications,
do your research don't fall for the hype, don't just get duped/conned/gilt-ed into it
or fall for the unrealistic eco-sale pitches...

You still need wind & sun to actually bank the make power, for the battery storage,
room for the extra equipment, some HOA rules about roofs & laws/reg.s
county, city or state, w-t-f-e authorities, building dept. permits & regulations
that apply to all the above...

But also in cloudy areas, snowy or rainy or in valleys or in a heavily wooded shady
areas too etc. that don't have allot of wind &/or sun exposures,
it will be far less effective/efficient, lots of factors to consider...

Do your due diligence, don't get conned/duped, by the eco-guilt-green-$$$-scam...

My $0.02 cents of reality...
 
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True, which is why the solar market is focusing more on point of use installations, such as residential and commercial rooftops. This puts the power production at the point of use, which essentially eliminates transmission losses. This is the greatest strength of solar, simply because one can't normally install a gas or hydro turbine on their property. It's the only thing that makes solar viable for most markets.

Couldn't agree more with everything HT413 is saying. This is the only approach to making it work and the drive towards this approach is really in it's infancy.
 
Not to high jack this topic but it got me to wondering about a lot of things that most people would label me a lunatic for mentioning. So what happens to you if you don't leave your food set for five minutes after taking it out of the microwave? Is there such a thing as too many electronic frequencies travelling in the atmosphere. Can't even fathom the number of microwave cell towers, two way radios, garage door openers and satellite signals beaming to earth. I remember when the cops were worried about hand-held radar units being too close to their face and causing cancer. How many birds are killed each year by the money mongers that erect wind generators ? Why is hydro usage so expensive to the average household when every large city leaves the lights on in unoccupied high rise buildings. And lastly, why does an energy saving bulb cost 500% more than a regular bulb ? If the porch light were left on for a year, it would still cost me way less than buying a $23 bulb. Indeed the cost of convenience and power is tremendously high but sometimes you gotta sit back and put things in perspective. Something the new world, high tech generation doesn't give any thought to because it doesn't effect them personally - until their own hydro bill arrives. And if solar energy is so free of pollution, why can't I and many others afford to install it or at least get a tax cut for purchasing it ? We talk a good story when it comes to global warming and energy reduction but not everyone can afford to have the means to really achieve it.

The price of residential solar installation is almost at the point where the cost to finance the solar system is the same as your paying monthly to the electric company. And by the way I'm pretty sure you can get a one time tax break for installing solar on your home.
 
I realize that gasoline is a finite resource.
This is the lie you were led to believe by those with the alternative energy agenda. It doesn't come from rotting dinosaurs any more than I did. They will profit from everything about these so called green energy alternatives while they bankrupt us in the process to subsidize them.
 
I find it sad and frustrating that nuclear power has been dealt such a big blow from misinformation over the years.

All --repeat--all the energy we use today comes from nuclear power of one form or another.--The sun has given us all the energy we use and is "nuclear".

What we are doing is scrambling from one form of nuclear energy to another as needed to comply with the irrational debates of the day.

One simple thing has been true from the beginning of us wanting to get warm.---Their are risks that we learn about from every form of heat we find to get close to. ---Fire is warm but when you put your hand in it that is bad.---Too much all at once?---The hazards of energy are as great as the amounts of it we generate.

We are stuck in a complex situation that has a giant grid for moving electricity. It is in place and works just fine. All it needs is unlimited "EMF. (power). We have that and it is proven to work better and safer than alternatives. All of the current issues with carbon could be answered (and BTW shown to be a scam) if we move to where the real power is.
 
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