FirmFeel 1 1/8 front sway bar?

[Convertcuda]

I want to buy this sway bar 1 1/8 but not sure if it will fit in a 70 b-body K-frame with factory skid plate. I did call FF but they did not know. Anyone have experience with this? Thanks for any help. Was also thinking about buy 3/4 rear sway. Anyone have this combination?

 

[Kern Dog]

I put a 1 1/4" hollow QA 1 bar in mine. I had a solid 1 1/4" one before. They fit. The skid plate should not make a difference.

 

[ckessel]

Make sure the flat portion facing the road, where you put the floor jack for raising, isn't mashed in.

 

[Convertcuda]

Make sure the flat portion facing the road, where you put the floor jack for raising, isn't mashed in.View attachment 1513421View attachment 1513422View attachment 1513423

Thanks what tool did you use to drill those holes with cutting through to other metal. My k-frame is stock with stock skid plate. I will need to cut but not sure if it will need mods for clearance

 

[T2R9]

When I installed a Hellwig 1-1/8 bar on one of my Chargers with a factory skid plate it would not go in until I cut the weld on the backside and pryed it down about an inch. Put the bar in and welded it back up. It was a 72 so same k-frame. Test fit first. The Firm feel bar might be bent differently.

 

[ckessel]

I used my Blair Rotabroach set. #11099 which is fractional. All of the holes I cut were to add welds to stiffen up the k-frame. I added in 120+ over the factory 30 or so. You can cut sheetmetal or heavier material with them. I have two other sets of those which gives me the ability to cut up to 2.5" in diameter. The additional welds were just one of the many things I did to the k for improvements to aid the stiffening. Other than buying the tools, its low buck easy mods. Some pieces of steel to make gussets and a wire feed welder.

 

[Convertcuda]

Thanks what tool did you use to drill those holes with cutting through to other metal. My k-frame is stock with stock skid plate. I will need to cut but not sure if it will need mods for clearance

When I installed a Hellwig 1-1/8 bar on one of my Chargers with a factory skid plate it would not go in until I cut the weld on the backside and pryed it down about an inch. Put the bar in and welded it back up. It was a 72 so same k-frame. Test fit first. The Firm feel bar might be bent differently.

Thanks - did the hellwig work with lower control arms and no mods to those?

 

[Convertcuda]

I used my Blair Rotabroach set. #11099 which is fractional. All of the holes I cut were to add welds to stiffen up the k-frame. I added in 120+ over the factory 30 or so. You can cut sheetmetal or heavier material with them. I have two other sets of those which gives me the ability to cut up to 2.5" in diameter. The additional welds were just one of the many things I did to the k for improvements to aid the stiffening. Other than buying the tools, its low buck easy mods. Some pieces of steel to make gussets and a wire feed welder.

View attachment 1514377

Thanks - any pics of the mods you did?

 

[T2R9]

Thanks - did the hellwig work with lower control arms and no mods to those?

Yes

 

[mopar jack]

I just installed a 1 1/8 bar from firmfeel and had to cut the skid plate and bend it to get it in. My car is a 71 road runner and it sucked having to cut the plate after I had it powder coated and assembled in the car.

 

[Kern Dog]

This is the QA 1 bar I installed:

Compared to the same size solid bar I removed:

Neither bar was curved in the middle section.

 

[ckessel]

Thanks - any pics of the mods you did?

Have many. In these, I've cut pieces out so I could get on the backside of the lower control arm shaft tubes so I could get some weld on them for better attachment to the frame. For the pocket where the strut rods attach, I added some material in to help box that area in. I cut through the idler arm bracket them through the first layer of the frame to better anchor them together. Found some big washers, from Fastenal which are used for building construction, to fit around the arm side of the lower shaft tubes which gives that area quite a bit of reinforcement.

 

[ckessel]

More. On these I've welded fully the washers around both the outside and inside. On the front side of the tubes, I used the thick washers supplied with the FF Greasable shafts, I'm using delrin bushings from FF, to catch the front side of the tube. Welded them to the k and found some bigger washers to go around them plus weld in and out.
On the strut area of the frame, I cut holes on the topside and shaft side of the k. Welded there too.

 

[ckessel]

More. These are showing the welds around the reinforced areas. Added the skid plate. You can get an idea of all the holes I punched around the seams of the k. If you know what a shear wall is in construction, or tons of rivets holding aluminum panels together for aircraft or race cars, the extra welded area really stiffen this unit up by having all of those welds holding more area together to cut down on any flex. I'm sure there is way to test torsional rigidity but I don't have a way to do it. I just winged it. For sure you need to get the k clean for all of the welding. I had mine tanked twice but there was still goo in between the layers. Until I burned it out with the hot wrench.

 

[ckessel]

More still. Here hanging it on the engine and marking where I need to trim excess material away on the topside of the k at a later date. Later date, trimmed the excess material away. Added material in on the steering box mount which is a known flex area. Then prettied up. All of this work, other than blast and coat, is low dollar unless you don't have the equipment/material/skills. Of course there are many, many hours spent doing this.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I think going to town with a spot welder would have achieved likely equal results in the area of stiffness and take 1/3 the time and effort.
If using any strut rods with a rubber bushing I can see little reason for stiffening an area that a rubber bushing would completely Undermind for any additional stiffness, for an item's only real loading is under heavy braking, and while also symmetrically loading both wheels almost equally which helps offset any very minor potential flex negatives (toe out?).
To be frank, sometimes this stuff just seems to me to lean towards monkey see, monkey do.
I'd enjoy seeing the classic engineering design process on these projects or:

"The engineering design process is a series of steps that engineers follow to come up with a solution to a problem12345.The steps of the engineering design process are12345:

• Define the problem and identify the constraints
• Do background research
• Specify requirements and criteria
• Brainstorm and evaluate possible solutions
• Choose the best solution and make a plan
• Develop and prototype the solution
• Test and redesign the prototype
• Communicate the results"

 

[Rennkafer]

I'd enjoy seeing the classic engineering design process on these projects or:

"The engineering design process is a series of steps that engineers follow to come up with a solution to a problem12345.The steps of the engineering design process are12345:

• Define the problem and identify the constraints
• Do background research
• Specify requirements and criteria
• Brainstorm and evaluate possible solutions
• Choose the best solution and make a plan
• Develop and prototype the solution
• Test and redesign the prototype
• Communicate the results"

Most folks simply don't have the resources or knowledge to do this, particularly the testing part. I agree there are some places where diminishing returns certainly apply (the strut rod hole reinforcement probably is a good example, especially with rubber bushings)... but eliminating flex in structural components is nearly always a plus. A ton of spot welds would certainly approach seam welding, but I don't know of a "hobby" level spot welder that is capable of doing the job, so again, out of reach of the average hobbyist. Plenty have a MIG welder though.

Also, I know and work with a lot of engineers... and while that's the textbook method, it gets used less often than you might think.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Most folks simply don't have the resources or knowledge to do this, particularly the testing part. I agree there are some places where diminishing returns certainly apply (the strut rod hole reinforcement probably is a good example, especially with rubber bushings)... but eliminating flex in structural components is nearly always a plus. A ton of spot welds would certainly approach seam welding, but I don't know of a "hobby" level spot welder that is capable of doing the job, so again, out of reach of the average hobbyist. Plenty have a MIG welder though.

Also, I know and work with a lot of engineers... and while that's the textbook method, it gets used less often than you might think.

I'm sure, but from my life experience, most go astray on the very first engineering step, and the result then often resorts to GIGO.
I apply a five step very similar process.
Ultimately, bang for buck applies.

 

[ckessel]

JCC, can you show us some examples of what you've done to your car for upgrades etc in this area? Would love to see them.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Since I believe in the motto on cars that "everything effects everything else", not sure if any particular area is more worthy here IMO.
Understand pics below of the thousands I have are of only three of my "fleet". over the past couple of decades. Not sure I need narrate them or note my modifications with this distinguished audience. Also understand, I firmly believe, there is nothing I have done that cannot be improved on. and will if the chance presents itself.