Front suspension poll?

[biomedtechguy]

Qa1 Ford Pinto suspension=Gerst

Carl Gerst was great to meet in person, when development and sales of his products was still new. He was also very good answering questions and having a discussion on the phone.
Are you certain his front coilover, rack and pinion suspension system is based on the Pinto/Mustang II ?
As interested as I was in R&P steering, how can a suspension made for a vehicle the size and weight of a Pinto possibly work well, or hold up over time, in a 3,500+ pound car??

 

[dvw]

The Mustang II stuff (Pinto) is plenty strong enough. The Gerst design has been taken over by QA1. The location if the rack is such that the outer tie rods need to be spaced down 2" or more to correct bump steer. I called QA1 about this. They told me I didn't know what I was doing. Then I asked at their trailer last Summer at a large Mopar show. The guys there were surprised when I showed them. A few months later they cameout with a bulletin showing this exact same spacing I suggested. The turning radius is far less than stock. The manual rack has a high ratio making steering effort very high. I've installed these systems and driven them in both A and B bodies. As far as Ackerman. Look at any front steer system. The location of the outer tie rods is out much closer to the wheel. Look at a GM car. These guys fight wheel clearance when using smaller diameter wide wheels or wheels with negative offset.
Doug

 

[Hemirunner]

Carl Gerst was great to meet in person, when development and sales of his products was still new. He was also very good answering questions and having a discussion on the phone.
Are you certain his front coilover, rack and pinion suspension system is based on the Pinto/Mustang II ?
As interested as I was in R&P steering, how can a suspension made for a vehicle the size and weight of a Pinto possibly work well, or hold up over time, in a 3,500+ pound car??

The RMS stuff I have is all Mustang II/Pinto based as well.

 

[biomedtechguy]

The Gerst design has been taken over by QA1

I read the article when Carl Gerst "teamed up" with him to produce the front and rear suspension systems under the QA1 brand.
Now if only GE Healthcare or Aramark would "team up" with me to buy out my service contracts...lol.
I would hope Carl earned enough in that deal to retire and do whatever he wants every day.

The Mustang II stuff (Pinto) is plenty strong enough.

The RMS stuff I have is all Mustang II/Pinto based as well.

Well, say no more!
I know I won't be changing out the front suspension on my Roadrunner, that has been done. If I get some inconceivable financial windfall, I would be interested in a rack and pinion coilover setup for a Superbird or AAR/TA clone, and a 4 link or IRS rear suspension.
I was "certain" I was going to do a RMS triangulated 4 link for my Roadrunner, but right before I made the multiple changes and add ons (detailed in my long signature) I was convinced by "the forum" to go with Calvert split mono leaf springs and Assassin traction bars and sliders, the brand of bars was my tweak on the idea, and the sliders just plain work as evident by a drag racing video.

 

[70ChargerRT]

I read the article when Carl Gerst "teamed up" with him to produce the front and rear suspension systems under the QA1 brand.
Now if only GE Healthcare or Aramark would "team up" with me to buy out my service contracts...lol.
I would hope Carl earned enough in that deal to retire and do whatever he wants every day.


Well, say no more!
I know I won't be changing out the front suspension on my Roadrunner, that has been done. If I get some inconceivable financial windfall, I would be interested in a rack and pinion coilover setup for a Superbird or AAR/TA clone, and a 4 link or IRS rear suspension.
I was "certain" I was going to do a RMS triangulated 4 link for my Roadrunner, but right before I made the multiple changes and add ons (detailed in my long signature) I was convinced by "the forum" to go with Calvert split mono leaf springs and Assassin traction bars and sliders, the brand of bars was my tweak on the idea, and the sliders just plain work as evident by a drag racing video.

Not me. Im not going to say anything negative about the Ford Pinto Suspension. I’m sure it has its place for some Mopar guys but it’s definitely not for me or ever will be with the R&R I’ve down. The next motor I do I’ll probably have one of my welding buddies to fab me a tubular K-frame.

 

[Hemirunner]

Not me. Im not going to say anything negative about the Ford Pinto Suspension. I’m sure it has its place for some Mopar guys but it’s definitely not for me or ever will be with the R&R I’ve down. The next motor I do I’ll probably have one of my welding buddies to fab me a tubular K-frame.

Different strokes for different folks for sure, and I’m not trying to change your mind but here’s a side by side of both spindles. B-body is all black, M2 is the other. I cut the steering arm off, but as you can see, It’s plenty beefy. The difference is, the mass is placed where it’s needed and isn’t where it’s not. The bearing diameter is even larger.

 

[70ChargerRT]

Different strokes for different folks for sure, and I’m not trying to change your mind but here’s a side by side of both spindles. B-body is all black, M2 is the other. I cut the steering arm off, but as you can see, It’s plenty beefy. The difference is, the mass is placed where it’s needed and isn’t where it’s not. The bearing diameter is even larger.

View attachment 1464909

View attachment 1464910

Oh yeah I know those spindles are huge. The guy that painted my car is huge ford guy and I’d say he does at least 10 of those swaps a year in the older Ford cars and trucks. My factory disc spindles is probably the smaller of the bunch. It never crossed my mine one time to change them for some bigger ones. Never heard of any problems with them.

 

[Budnicks]

The geometry needs to be corrected with the steering linkage pivots. Upper arms can only adjust camber and caster. You are correct that all early Mopars have a limited caster range. However adding caster lowers the outer tie rod. Sometimes that helps, sometimes it makes things worse. Outer tie rod location is critical to bump steer. The QA1 rack and pinion stuff has a horible outer tie rod location. Trust me the stock stuff is very good. Even strong enough for "big wheelies". 2.5 degrees of caster is plenty stable at 150. My experience? 35+ years of racing. Probably 5000 alignments thru my carrer. Along with body shop wreck repair
Doug

Thanks for the advice

In my now 45+ years of drag racing, 20+ races a year from 1977-2007
I was running 8's at 18 y/o
I slacked off after moving to Rancho Murieta, 1997
I did still keep my Pro & comp license current, dabbled in fast cars
for those 10 years, made my street car go in the mid 8's
but not many races a year, maybe 100 1/4 mile N2O passes
& another maybe 200 passes N/A...
I was golfing too much...
Before I moved up here, no tracks very close, still made some 200+ passes
maybe 10+ a year, nothing like I had done before...
I was spending time with family, had neglected before Lisa was gone
the golf, kids & their sports, not racing as much...
Nothing (tracks close either) like like I had in the bay area & Sacramento...
I'm 125+ miles away from the closest track now...

Back then even going running, many different classes & cars
S/ST 10.90, S/G 9.90, S/C 8.90,
even when I lived right next to Polar Raceway in Palmer, Alaska
S/E 7.90 everyone was well over 160
Pro-Gas 8.50, A/Gas 6.90s-190s Altered
7.0s to 8.0s 160-188+ in Outlaw classes
best in a doored car T/S 6.69 @ 217
or 5.95 @ 227 in a 225" RE dragster (not mine)
many fast cars in between, my slower 8-9-10 sec. street/strip stuff, many MoPars

I will say I'm not a front-end or alignment expert, don't/didn't ever claim I was
I certainly haven't aligned 5,000+ cars...
I will say "leave it to the professionals", if you aren't competent in your own skills
or measurements & have the tools to do it correctly...
I do know what works very well on my cars...

I've never tried a QA1 rack or QA1 front-steer type Rack & pinion system
I didn't recommend any either, not to my knowledge...
I haven't used any Mustang II/Pinto stuff either,
and not on any MoPars...
Mostly Capps Automotive, before QA1 bought them out...
Had limited use of Magnum Force Racing components, OK success...
There weren't many companies (not reputable) making anything
suspension-wise for MoPars...
I have done quite a bit of my own fab stuff too...
I have owned & built 26 racecars since 1975...
Some worked some not so great, I'll admit I've messed up here & there
I've made bad purchases in the past too, I don't hold back what I think...
On OE stuff or aftermarket stuff either...

I had run MustangII/Pinto type stuff (not actual Ford OE components)
on quite a few early on (late 70's early 80s),
Tom Alston Engineering's stuff
later his brother in Sacramento, Chris Alston Chassis Works stuff,
it is/was top quality stuff, well into the 90's
on mostly Brand X cars, Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, Buick, Ford, not just MoPars
street/strip, Pro-street 'yes street driven', or on all-out tube chassis real racecars
aftermarket frames/tube chassis, suspension components etc.
with decent success, very lil' street driving on it, mainly track use...

I do have 1st hand experience, also with a bolt-in much lighter replacement
for the heavy OE steering stuff, using a Unisteer Rack 68 RR (rear steer, just like OE)
(I had said a few times, when asked, or I'd volunteer it, that I wouldn't recommend it,
not as is anyway)
It had a horrid bump steer issue too, easy enough fix, spaced the tierod ends
& the turning radius is horrid too, simple fix, simple redrill...
The worst part is lack of Oil-pan options, with a rack under the pan
where the draglink would be on OE crap...

just edited for clarity... 3:07 pm PST

 

[Budnicks]

There have been a few changes, lol. After owning a couple black cars, I decided against it for upkeep reasons. Besides, the blackout look is somewhat played out. It’ll be Petty Blue now. I picked up twin 88mm Forced Induction turbos which should be a substantial step up from the twin 76s I’m running now. The hemi is done and running in my green car at 540 cubic inches with the Precisions. . It’ll get a new cam when I move it over into the Superbird.

that car is going to be badass... Hands-down