Has anyone hurt/broke the car with chassis stiffening?
- Thread starter cdoublejj
- Start date
My car was cracked at the rear frame rails, so I put in frame connectors to cure it.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
- Local time
- 1:43 AM
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2017
- Messages
- 11,323
- Reaction score
- 17,620
- Location
- taxifornia,soon 2b Arizona.
You've been watching uncle Tony. He's an idiot. (At least on this subject).
Last edited:
cdoublejj
Well-Known Member
I've watched song bird when he did repairs/rebuilt gener mayhem after Chrysler gutted it and they managed breake a bunch of the spot welds.(granted it was gutted)
Sometimes he is an idiot but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Picked up some decent tips and occasionally makes some good points on things. (Some of which I dabble with or experienced 2nd/3rd hand)
This is something I've been thinking about and I know asking and discussing rarely ever hurt anybody.
I welcome any and all comments, opinions or experiences. It's all brain food right now.
PS Kiwis torq boxes don't look bad at all. I've seen some of you guys on forums like these make your pieces as well and welcome any input or pictures on that too!
Sometimes he is an idiot but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Picked up some decent tips and occasionally makes some good points on things. (Some of which I dabble with or experienced 2nd/3rd hand)
This is something I've been thinking about and I know asking and discussing rarely ever hurt anybody.
I welcome any and all comments, opinions or experiences. It's all brain food right now.
PS Kiwis torq boxes don't look bad at all. I've seen some of you guys on forums like these make your pieces as well and welcome any input or pictures on that too!
Last edited:
70chall440
Well-Known Member
- Local time
- 1:43 AM
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2018
- Messages
- 4,579
- Reaction score
- 6,344
- Location
- Yelm, Washington
Absolutely agree that UTG is an idiot whose advice I would be very cautious in following anything he says.
Reference the stiffening issue, not sure where this stems from (other than UTG) but stiffening can only improve the vehicle assuming it is done correctly. For discussion sake, look at convertibles and performance cars from the era, attempts were made to stiffen them up somewhat to withstand twisting. It has been reported that in cars that did not have stiffening but had significant HP added in some cases cracked windshields, popped spot welds especially in the quarters and bent other aspects of the substructure. In other words, correct and properly installed SFCs, torque boxes and under fender supports greatly enhance the structural rigidity of a classic car. I install all of the above in all my builds.
Reference the stiffening issue, not sure where this stems from (other than UTG) but stiffening can only improve the vehicle assuming it is done correctly. For discussion sake, look at convertibles and performance cars from the era, attempts were made to stiffen them up somewhat to withstand twisting. It has been reported that in cars that did not have stiffening but had significant HP added in some cases cracked windshields, popped spot welds especially in the quarters and bent other aspects of the substructure. In other words, correct and properly installed SFCs, torque boxes and under fender supports greatly enhance the structural rigidity of a classic car. I install all of the above in all my builds.
- Local time
- 1:43 AM
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2017
- Messages
- 11,323
- Reaction score
- 17,620
- Location
- taxifornia,soon 2b Arizona.
If I jack up my roadrunner under one wheel, one wheel comes up, and I can't open the door. And It has factory torque boxes.
If I jack up my 62 under one wheel, that whole side goes up, the sedan door opens and closes, and it doesn't have torque boxes. (It does have homemade subframe connectors....... and an eight point bar tied to the floor and the subframe connectors). No broken spot welds though.......
If I jack up my 62 under one wheel, that whole side goes up, the sedan door opens and closes, and it doesn't have torque boxes. (It does have homemade subframe connectors....... and an eight point bar tied to the floor and the subframe connectors). No broken spot welds though.......
wagonman
Well-Known Member
- Local time
- 3:43 AM
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2015
- Messages
- 2,100
- Reaction score
- 1,762
- Location
- Deming New Mexico
My Duster has frame connectors and I am thinking of adding F&R torque boxes. Going to get New rear springs also. The front inner fenders were cut out when I got so the front end needs some help. The PO cut it up for fenderwells but you dont have to cut it all out. Had a motor plate also. Now has a reinforced slant K with Shumacher conversion mounts for the 470. I dont want the spring mounts to rip out when I put slicks on it. will also need a cage at some point. Baby steps.
jamie
Well-Known Member
AMX364
Well-Known Member
Frame connectors cured a rattle in a 70 Barracuda Conv. It was due to the door moving around in normal driving, saw it in outside mirror and put my hand on outside door seam. I had been searching for that rattle a while.
vabchmopar
Well-Known Member
Cut the hole for the ebrake before you install, I did not so now I have to do it on the car
Ceedawg
Well-Known Member
You got to remember if it don’t flex it breaks. Great for a car that goes over 100,000 miles. Truck frames have a definite cycle time like 200,000 cycles, weld on it and that time goes way down and will crack. Ships, planes and any other big vessel are DESIGNED to flex, think of the 1000 + foot oil tankers. Ever seen the railroad tracks welded? They bend up on a flatbed trailer, welded, Then the trailer is moved to the next section as the welded section lays back on the rail bed like a noodle. A cage IS the chassis, the body just hangs on it like a painting.
- Local time
- 4:43 AM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 17,227
- Reaction score
- 32,396
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
I need to borrow you and your welder for a bit, Dennis....
- Local time
- 4:43 AM
- Joined
- May 14, 2011
- Messages
- 17,227
- Reaction score
- 32,396
- Location
- On the Ridge, TN
Yep, our 2012 Charger R/T does that also - you pick up any corner of the car and the whole side comes up.
Heck, the dang thing is so stiff that when I straddle a drainage ditch with it, a wheel will dangle in mid-air.
vabchmopar
Well-Known Member
A friend and I welded those on, being on the rotisserie made it much easier.
Gus chiggins
Well-Known Member
I installed the mopar performance bolt on frame connectors. I figured it couldn't hurt. The car is not a fire breather, or will see a track. I figured it couldn't hurt.
As always Interesting comments guys. I never heard of popping spot welds until this thread....blaming the frame connectors?
I am not sure but our 72 b body seems like it is more rigid...possibly better constructed then our 69 b? May all be in the roof strength where the quarter is welded on? I noticed 60' times were way better at the track...and with less tire 72 satellite vs 69 charger.
On our 510 powered 69 charger we cracked all the way around the door latch...and it has popped some of the original filler off the roof seam. I have had the drivers door pop open taking off. So far that has been the limit to what has broke.....but the doors drag pretty hard opening/closing and I dont think it will ever be the same. I wish we would have done the frame upgrades back in the day before we exceeded 450hp. That was about the time we noticed the car flexing. We have another 69 charger that had a 318 all its life..the doors open perfectly. We recently started working on it for a big block transplant. I am not going to make the same mistake we will do frame connectors and torque box upgrades before it hits the road.
I don't see how beefing up the torque boxes alone would give the car enough rigidity not to crack where our car has.... Door latch and roof seams...?? Doing both torque boxes and frame connectors is the obvious path. The body even with frame connectors is still flexing....just less.
I am not sure but our 72 b body seems like it is more rigid...possibly better constructed then our 69 b? May all be in the roof strength where the quarter is welded on? I noticed 60' times were way better at the track...and with less tire 72 satellite vs 69 charger.
On our 510 powered 69 charger we cracked all the way around the door latch...and it has popped some of the original filler off the roof seam. I have had the drivers door pop open taking off. So far that has been the limit to what has broke.....but the doors drag pretty hard opening/closing and I dont think it will ever be the same. I wish we would have done the frame upgrades back in the day before we exceeded 450hp. That was about the time we noticed the car flexing. We have another 69 charger that had a 318 all its life..the doors open perfectly. We recently started working on it for a big block transplant. I am not going to make the same mistake we will do frame connectors and torque box upgrades before it hits the road.
I don't see how beefing up the torque boxes alone would give the car enough rigidity not to crack where our car has.... Door latch and roof seams...?? Doing both torque boxes and frame connectors is the obvious path. The body even with frame connectors is still flexing....just less.
Last edited:
70chall440
Well-Known Member
- Local time
- 1:43 AM
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2018
- Messages
- 4,579
- Reaction score
- 6,344
- Location
- Yelm, Washington
I agree that torque boxes alone are not going to help with big power and hard launches especially with slicks on a sticky track. That said, many cars back in the day were raced exactly like this, some suffered spot weld popping issues, some didn't. Having build/worked on many of the 60's and 70's Mopars I can say with great confidence that no 2 cars are built the same. I have seen many spot welds not even making contact or barely making contact, minimal spot welds, etc. In other words some cars were put together with the minimum about of tacks whereas some cars were built with a lot more spot welds than necessary. A friend and I recently put rear quarters, trunk floor, Dutchman panel and tail panel in a 70 Roadrunner and that car must have been a "Monday" car because there was an abundance of spot welds. Conversely my own 70 Roadrunner had significantly less spot welds.
As to your 69, I think it can be fixed. It might be as easy as jacking it up in the center under the doors and trying to get the front/back to relax some which you can check by opening and closing the doors (trying it multiple times as the car is raised). Once you get as good as it will get, then its time to install the subframe connectors. Not saying this will definitely work but its worth a shot, you would be surprised at how much these cars flex without SFCs.
As to your 69, I think it can be fixed. It might be as easy as jacking it up in the center under the doors and trying to get the front/back to relax some which you can check by opening and closing the doors (trying it multiple times as the car is raised). Once you get as good as it will get, then its time to install the subframe connectors. Not saying this will definitely work but its worth a shot, you would be surprised at how much these cars flex without SFCs.
Gus chiggins
Well-Known Member
I guess the "stiffer" cars were the 4 door, and two door sedans, only because of the b pillar.
Ceedawg
Well-Known Member
Yes, look back at the 65 altered wheelbase factory cars, all hard tops and the were bending like crazy. Chrysler tried to get the racers NOT to do wheelstands. Eventually they became bent beyond repair
Similar threads
