Head gasket for Performer RPM aluminum heads.

[Garys1969RR]

Just got a set of used PERFORMER RPM HEADS. The guy included some used fel pro 1009 head gaskets. Can these be re used? He claimed they can be used over and over again with good results. I have also heard of many cases of using the .020" steel shim head gasket with no issues. Any experience/advice on this? Thanks

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There is a guy in England using the steel shim gaskets with Stealth heads, on his 440 RR with good results. It is a regularly driven street car.

 

[Propwash]

Just my 2 cents........I never re-use a gasket. I'd spend the $40 bucks and not have to worry about it. Lot easier than pulling off cylinder heads.

Good luck what ever route you go. I run the 1009 with my Edelbrock heads, no issues, worked well for a decent quench spacing on the stroker.

 

[Kern Dog]

I agree with Prop: Never reuse a Fel Pro or any composition head gasket !
Cometics are reuseable. As far as the steel shims, some have had luck, others had leaks. The trick is to spray them with a sealant of some sort before installing.
I've ran Fel Pro gaskets for years but went with Cometics recently to lower my compression. I was at 11.22 and now am at 10.07.

 

[rev.ronnie]

Any composition gasket with a stainless fire ring will brinill the head surface of an aluminum head. The ones with the wire ring are worse. I personally like Cometics. They are actually reusable to en extent. As mentioned by Gregory, you just clean them with a mild solvent and dust them off with hi tack or copper coat. I have reused them on my bbc race engines with no problems.

The finish for an MLS gasket should be better than 30RA , so keep this in mind. Many shops and head manufacturers struggle with this.

 

[lewtot184]

coppers can be reused and some mls but not any composite gaskets. i wouldn't recommend a fel-pro 1009 on a 400 or 440 block. the fire ring gets to close to the cylinder wall and may burn thru. edelbrock gaskets for the rpm head are ok, there is a fel-pro marine gasket (don't have the number handy). i'm going to use the fel-pro 8519 or the edelbrock on my build. the 8519 is economical and doesn't have the "wire" in the fire ring.

 

[IQ52]

coppers can be reused and some mls but not any composite gaskets. i wouldn't recommend a fel-pro 1009 on a 400 or 440 block. the fire ring gets to close to the cylinder wall and may burn thru. edelbrock gaskets for the rpm head are ok, there is a fel-pro marine gasket (don't have the number handy). i'm going to use the fel-pro 8519 or the edelbrock on my build. the 8519 is economical and doesn't have the "wire" in the fire ring.

I'm 100% on board with this. The FelPro 8519PT1 is economical ($20ea) and the only gasket you need for the Edelbrock head. I have used it to 12:1 compression, 780 HP. The 1009 is smaller and will hang into the combustion chamber in some heads so it should be used cautiously. Just for the record, the FelPro marine gasket number I have here is 17059 and is the same physical dimensions as the 8519PT1 but about twice the cost ($37ea).

 

[69Bee]

Just got a set of used PERFORMER RPM HEADS. The guy included some used fel pro 1009 head gaskets. Can these be re used? He claimed they can be used over and over again with good results. I have also heard of many cases of using the .020" steel shim head gasket with no issues. Any experience/advice on this? Thanks

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a guy in England using the steel shim gaskets with Stealth heads, on his 440 RR with good results. It is a regularly driven street car.

Gary, This is an opinion from a machinist who does this all of the time...

If you bought the Performer heads used, do a valve job, and mill the heads. Aluminum heads should be surfaced with a diamond on a mill, although an alternative is to grind them. This will remove all traces of previous fire ring impressions, and straighten the heads. You will need a low RMS on aluminum heads, and suggest going with a Cometic MLS gasket. I use diamond on aluminum heads, and CBN on cast iron heads in my shop.

Before some of you start saying that they have used a Fel-Pro gasket for years.... I said I suggest he use the MLS. It seals better than any other gasket (hot/cold) on aluminum, with the proper surface finish on the head. A Fel_pro composition can work too, but you do run the risk of leaks and gasket failure. If the surface finish is too smooth for a composition gasket, the head can move around, causing the gasket to fatigue and then fail. Steel shim head gaskets can work if applied properly with sealer (aluminum paint), but will brinell the head surface.

The best solution is to surface the heads with a diamond, and use Cometic MLS gaskets of your desired thickness. These cost more, but if you have to do it all over, you have spent more anyway. And, NEVER reuse a composite gasket, EVER...

Dave
Precision Machine Service

 

[Meep-Meep]

Just a note, I believe the spec for a surface finish on aluminum for use with an MLS gasket is 15 RA. That is basically a mirror finish.

 

[Propwash]

Here's a clip out of the performer heads instructions, if that helps out:

 

[451Mopar]

I'm 100% on board with this. The FelPro 8519PT1 is economical ($20ea) and the only gasket you need for the Edelbrock head. I have used it to 12:1 compression, 780 HP. The 1009 is smaller and will hang into the combustion chamber in some heads so it should be used cautiously. Just for the record, the FelPro marine gasket number I have here is 17059 and is the same physical dimensions as the 8519PT1 but about twice the cost ($37ea).

A agree, the 8519PT1 works good, and is inexpensive. It is around 0.040" thick, and the opening is near 4.5". If you get the Fel-Pro KS2110 gasket set ($55) it has these head gaskets, plus all the other gaskets except the intake tray.
I have used these in stock iron heads, B1-B/S heads, Edelbrock, and even the old "large chamber" 440 Source Stealth heads. All these were around 9.5:1 to 11:1 compression, and upto 600 HP.

My high compression race engine uses the MLS Cometic gaskets, but they are about $90 each!

 

[Garys1969RR]

Thanks for all your replies. I noticed that Edelbrock recommends the 1009 as a choice for head gasket in their instructions for the head installation. I have decided to do a clean up surfacing on the heads, and use the .020" steel shim gasket with copper coat spray. Then I can maintain the .037" quench distance on the 451. Have seen multiple users with this combination with no problems reported other than some brinneling of the head surface. Will let you know this summer how it works out.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Just an update. Sold the 451 RR, so now I'm installing the Performer RPM heads on the 440 six pack motor. It has flat top pistons, L 2295 at .014" below deck. Using a solid lifter cam, Crane gold roller rockers, .020" steel shim head gasket. I've heard good and bad about using the steel shim head gaskets with aluminum heads, but alot of guys have done it with no problems. We'll see how this works out. I plan on using Copper Coat spray on the gaskets for a sealant. Does this work as good as aluminum spray paint? I've used that on iron heads and never had a problem.

 

[69Bee]

I used to use silver paint, and have recently used copper coat spray. I have had no problems with the copper coat spray.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I used to use silver paint, and have recently used copper coat spray. I have had no problems with the copper coat spray.

Oh great! Do you (or have you) used the steel shim gasket with the alumunum heads?

 

[MOPOWER871]

COMETIC AND FORGETIC, BEST DAM GASKET OUT THERE IN MY OPINION. RUNNING THEM ON MY 493 WITH EDDY RPM HEADS

 

[69Bee]

Oh great! Do you (or have you) used the steel shim gasket with the alumunum heads?

A steel shim gasket on aluminum should be fine. It will flatten out, and should not brinnel (dent) the head. If you use a HP Fel-Pro composite gasket, you need to use the one with the pre-flattened steel ring so as to minimize head brinelling on aluminum.

 

[moper]

I've run 1009s with RPMs and Stealths for years - no problems. The issue the non-pre-flattened gaskets have is brinneling at the fire ring. Over heat cycles this will reduce the clamping on that fire ring area. Simple scientific fact. I've never seen them overhang except on the early version Stealths which was a well-documented issue and 440Source addressed it. Given these area all aftermarket parts one never knows so I wouldn't discount it - I've just never experienced it. I would not run a steel gasket, or the standard rounded fire ring type composites on an aluminum headed street engine, and as noted the MLS gaskets need a very smooth surface on both heads and blocks to seal well. So the choice to use them needs to be made prior to machining.

 

[Garys1969RR]

This 440 has a .060" overbore, so the 1009s that were on it, actually were right at the edge of the cyl bore. The bore on a .060 O.S. 440 is 4.380. That is exactly the same diameter as the gasket. Now I had no problems with sealing, but the steel shim gasket is actually 4.40 diameter I believe. I like to experiment, so I'm going with the steel shim gasket. I've never had a prob with them, but I've never used one with an aluminum head either. I'll let you know how it works. Thanks!

 

[moper]

Not sure what you had, but the 1009s have a bore of 4.410" and at .060 over should have still had some block material under them. Unless the chamfer on the top of the bore was wide it should have been fully supported on the block side.
Steel shim has the same issues with brinneling as the round steel wire gaskets. It's not that they won't seal. It's that they will lose that seal over time with thermal cycles. The gasket doesn't move the same as aluminum on a very minute scale. So over time the aluminum will be eroded off the surface where the fire ring contacts it. Every time material erodes, the clamping on the fire ring is reduced by a tiny fraction. So you'll be fine for a while, and it might be fine for the whole time you own it. If you've seen used sets of aluminum heads for sale some have a groove that will catch a fingernail where the fire ring seats. It's because of the gasket used.