Help! I messed up somewhere installing electronic ignition.

[Plymouth71]

I screwed up somewhere. I don't know if the electronic ignition was working when I bought it, but I could not seem to get it to work for love and or money. I've now tried going back to points. But I cannot seem to get the car running. I can get it to run for maybe 20-30 seconds sputtering. That's about it. I replaced the points, the gap for the reluctor is set at .008. New rotor. New cap. New plugs new wires. And I just can't seem to get it to run. I'm at my wit's end. I have a friend coming over tomorrow and we're going to try and start from the beginning, and if we can get it running we're also going to check for vacuum and dwell. Car was running ok before, but with the recent change to ethanol fuel in my area, the fuel would boil on really hot days. I figured I would change to the electronic ignition, and put in a fuel vapor separator while it was parked in the garage, but I haven't even started on routing a return line at this point.

I want to say thank you, because this group has been very helpful over the years. I wish I had more time to read up and fully understand the dynamics of how the car works. I understand the principles, but I am not a technician and never trained as one.

I'm thinking of trying to start from scratch. So basically I need some suggestions on how to do that. I need to figure out top dead center I believe I can remove the valve cover and determine by the position of the valve. Any other suggestions. I've even gone back to my original coil. Please let me know how I can help in the process, I can post video of my car when I'm trying to start it I can post pictures what have you I've also replaced the ballast resistor too within brand new one. I've checked my grounds. I've capped off the vacuum lines.

I'm really hoping to make it to the local Mopar only show on Monday, but right now the only way my car is going to get there is on the back of a tow truck.

Thank you in advance for your time.

 

[pnora]

You make no sense. Are you electronic or points? If you have points they should be set at about .016.

 

[GTX JOHN]

Easier to remove a plug and bring it up on compression stroke
Then check rotor to make sure it is pointed at #1 Cylinder.

 

[Gus chiggins]

I screwed up somewhere. I don't know if the electronic ignition was working when I bought it, but I could not seem to get it to work for love and or money. I've now tried going back to points. But I cannot seem to get the car running. I can get it to run for maybe 20-30 seconds sputtering. That's about it. I replaced the points, the gap for the reluctor is set at .008. New rotor. New cap. New plugs new wires. And I just can't seem to get it to run. I'm at my wit's end. I have a friend coming over tomorrow and we're going to try and start from the beginning, and if we can get it running we're also going to check for vacuum and dwell. Car was running ok before, but with the recent change to ethanol fuel in my area, the fuel would boil on really hot days. I figured I would change to the electronic ignition, and put in a fuel vapor separator while it was parked in the garage, but I haven't even started on routing a return line at this point.

I want to say thank you, because this group has been very helpful over the years. I wish I had more time to read up and fully understand the dynamics of how the car works. I understand the principles, but I am not a technician and never trained as one.

I'm thinking of trying to start from scratch. So basically I need some suggestions on how to do that. I need to figure out top dead center I believe I can remove the valve cover and determine by the position of the valve. Any other suggestions. I've even gone back to my original coil. Please let me know how I can help in the process, I can post video of my car when I'm trying to start it I can post pictures what have you I've also replaced the ballast resistor too within brand new one. I've checked my grounds. I've capped off the vacuum lines.

I'm really hoping to make it to the local Mopar only show on Monday, but right now the only way my car is going to get there is on the back of a tow truck.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Calm down. You need to pare down your words. You need to explain your
"Operation Order"

 

[Ron H]

Did your ride run ok at one time? If so, recheck work you may have done. Is this system installed by you or was it already on the car? No points with el ig. Is this a mopar el ig setup? Do you have a wiring/installation diagram so you can retrace the wiring? Could be timing many be off.

 

[twecomm]

Ron H and others questions are all valid. If the engine ran before, probably nothing wrong with the electronic ignition.
Re-visit anything you have done since it last ran properly. Points aren't going to solve the problem. Doubt the ethanol in the fuel is your problem. Is the fuel pump delivering fuel to the carb ?

 

[Beekeeper]

Just reading the first part of the OP it sounds to me that the timing is retarted and needs more advance.

 

[hunt2elk]

Double check #5 & #7 plug wire routing. Pretty easy to get those 2 swapped.

 

[cosgig]

Running like crap on the points distributor could be caused by a bad condenser. And if it were me, I would check the TDC on #1 by sticking my finger into the #1 spark plug hole and turn the car over by had until you feel air pushing out your finger. Then set the initial timing at -12btdc. Make sure the distributor is clocked in the hole for the advance can to have room to travel, and the rotor pointing just before the #1 plug terminal on the cap. Then wire the cap from there, counter clockwise away from the #1 terminal. Then try it.

 

[Plymouth71]

Okay let me start over.
1. The car was running, but it wasn't running as nice as I would like. So I thought I would put in the electronic ignition conversion set that I got in a trade. It came out of a later 318(78) although I don't believe that should make a difference. The engine had been in a 68 Satellite. I don't know if the engine ran or not. So I don't know if the electronic ignition system is good or not. I swapped it in, set everything up according to diagrams and instruction I received on this site. But my friend and I could not get it to run.
2. Just before I swapped the ignition, I did put in new plugs and wires and a new coil.
3. I've since decided to try going back to the points system that was running. But now it isn't running either. I fixed one vacuum leak going to the brake booster, but I didn't see any others.

4. I have changed the points in the original distributor, condenser, the cap and rotor as well. I've checked ground even going so far as wiring up direct ground.

5. A fuel concern is going to be dealt with by the fuel vapor separator, but that I don't believe has anything to do with this problem. Same with the fuel. Because I can get the car to run, just not very well.

6. Unfortunately I have air conditioning on this car so it is difficult to reach the crank to move it manually but with some help I should be able to get it to top dead center on the 1st cylinder.

Mainly I am just trying to start fresh. And reset everything back to stock. I also realize the timing chain may have stretched, which may make timing a little more difficult. I'm just trying to determine a step-by-step procedure kind of like someone who is just built an engine so that I don't miss anything. I have access to the repair manuals, but they're not quite set up for this specific turn of events.

It is getting fuel, it runs and stalls.

 

[LowBikeMike]

Describe your action in point #4. What did you ground directly?

 

[Plymouth71]

Ignition box

 

[440 PHIXX]

The old light bulb tester from back when these cars were built is a better way to check grounds than a DVM. You can make one yourself with a dome light bulb or a backup bulb. A 12 volt bulb will put more resistance on the circuit than a meter will and you’ll see the difference in brightness. You need to be hooked to the positive battery terminal then you can check your grounds at different places to determine a good connection to the body.

 

[Geoff 2]

Disagree with post #13. Trying to use lamp brightness as test for resistance is not a good idea.
A DVM gives an accurate reading, end of story.

 

[LowBikeMike]

Ignition box

If you're gone back to points the ignition box has no impact on the circuit. Do you have points in distributor now? If not which electronic ignition are you using? Pictures would help.

 

[Ron H]

When you are able to start the engine, does it require a lot of cranking, or does it fire up quickly? What does it run like when it is running? Any popping through the carb? When it stalls does it do this on its own or when trying to give it throttle? If it fires up, you have spark. What’s the condition of the carb? One deal as you describe is a stretched timing chain which is if it’s appreciable, is a fast problem. Condition of the engine is a question. One thing you could try if the motor stays running, is have the dist just loose enough to be able to turn it by hand slightly C & CCW to see if this action improves the motor idle. If it stalls out try it again going the other way. If this works then you can check the timing. If it fires up and stalls could be more to do with a fuel delivery issue.

 

[Plymouth71]

We have the point system on. We have the reluctor Gap set at 016. We have the rotor in the right position. We have fuel. Dwell is 32. Plug wires are in the right order. We've got it running smoothly, but now it stalls at idle. When we have it on the road it will bog down and stall when I put my foot into it. Checking vaccum and idle screw adjustment next

 

[Ron H]

The reluctor replaced the points/condenser in el ig systems? Is this your point gap? Vac/leaks are always good to check out. Stalling on idle or throttle described could be fuel delivery...easy gremlin is the fuel filter, if your carb has a screen filter at the fuel inlet, it could be clogged...or pump is the hassle. Other - air/fuel mix at the carb jets adjusted properly using vac guage and/or rpm. If you checked dwell, did you check the timing?

 

[Plymouth71]

Okay well is set at 32 car is running well. Only issue is when I put my foot into it it dies out and wants to stall. If I feather it nicely it runs like a dream. We've checked idle screw adjustments vacuum is good. The only thing I can think of at this point might be the fuel filter or the accelerator pump. I can't see a fuel filter between the fuel pump and the carb. I have a feeling it might be in the tank. I want to install a fuel vapor separator, so I do need to run a return line I'll take a look and see if there's anything back there if and when I get to that. Summer is almost over so I don't expect to need that for much longer. It might be a thing for the spring. But I just don't know why of a sudden it bogs down.

 

[RJRENTON]

We have the point system on. We have the reluctor Gap set at 016. We have the rotor in the right position. We have fuel. Dwell is 32. Plug wires are in the right order. We've got it running smoothly, but now it stalls at idle. When we have it on the road it will bog down and stall when I put my foot into it. Checking vaccum and idle screw adjustment next

The reluctor tooth to pick up coil assembly gap is: 0.006" - 0.008" set with a brass or non-metallic feeler gauge. This dimension determines the strength or amplitude of the trigger pulse that the ECU or control box needs to turn OFF the switching transistor and creates the spark. If the reluctor gap iscexcessive, the trigger pulse will be weak and late, resulting in erratic ignition and poor engine operation.....stumbles, stalling, sluggish.
If the engine came from a '78 year car, it is highly likely that the carb may have computer mixture controlled components internally that are not controlled or activated by your present wiring and EGR vacuum ports and other related emission devices. What is the model of the installed carb? Do you have a Factory Service Manual for your car? BTW.....a digital volt ohm meter is an invaluable tool that is extremely useful in diagnosis......
BOB RENTON