Hydrogen engine

[Richard Cranium]

Got this emailed to me from a friend. Interesting.............



I’ve always been for hydrogen as a much better clean vehicle propulsion fuel vs. electric. It’s cheap and abundant and doesn’t require windmills, solar panels and millions of new charging stations as present gas stations could be retrofitted with Hydrogen pumps. Refueling, like gasoline, would take less than 5 minutes vs. EV’s much longer charge times. H would also preclude the environmental downsides of mining Lithium and rare earth metals for batteries, as well as end of life safe disposal issues.

 

[Richard Cranium]

And a follow up email.............


I'm just a layman but I think EV's are ridiculous for too many reasons to list. They are anything but green , they are destructive. Just another article I just read. I hope this EV movement crashes and burns , oh yeah that happens to them too. There is a reason why Honda and Toyota believe in a hydrogen car future. A large percentage of EV owners go back to ICE cars. The legacy auto manufacturer's jumped on and converted to EV's rather quickly. They still build their ICE cars , the politicians are just legislating stupidity with their 2035 all EV mandates. It's backfiring on them already - reality bites.

Hydrogen Cars Could Soon Compete With Electric Vehicles | OilPrice.com

 

[Triplegreen500]

Cummins already has one...

https://www.cummins.com/news/releas...-inc-debuts-15-liter-hydrogen-engine-act-expo

 

[Nxcoupe]

Ok. How is Hydrogen cheap? The last I looked into this was a few years ago and the way they were getting H, not H2 as it occurs naturally, was by electolosis from H2O? How is that cheap? It uses electricity to separate the H2 from the Oxygen and separates the 2 Hydrogen molecules at the same time. When I checked into it, it was like alcohol, it takes more BTUs to produce it as it is able to produce when burned, so it is a negative energy equation, meaning it takes more to make than it can produce.
What's changed?

 

[Rebelrouser]

Got this emailed to me from a friend. Interesting.............



I’ve always been for hydrogen as a much better clean vehicle propulsion fuel vs. electric. It’s cheap and abundant and doesn’t require windmills, solar panels and millions of new charging stations as present gas stations could be retrofitted with Hydrogen pumps. Refueling, like gasoline, would take less than 5 minutes vs. EV’s much longer charge times. H would also preclude the environmental downsides of mining Lithium and rare earth metals for batteries, as well as end of life safe disposal issues.

Using hydrogen does not get us off fossil fuels, the majority of Hydrogen is made from petroleum and natural gas.
Production of hydrogen - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

 

[dsd1967]

Yup....the only "green" hydrogen is produced by power created by windmills, solar or hydroelectric. Other than hydroelectric....not so green. I read somewhere that the most efficient production of hydrogen is through nuclear power.

 

[Photon440]

Hydrogen production from water is gaining momentum, partially due to the lower cost of water vs. crude oil. Out of 1,000 gallons of water, about 1/3 is hydrogen. Of course, the cleanliness of the electrical power source is still a big factor. Around here in B.C. it's all hydroelectric power. One of the largest electrolysis plants is the Shell Rhineland refinery in Germany, largely powered by wind generated electricity, and the Shell website has a large section dedicated to hydrogen. Hydrogen - What Is It? | Hydrogen Fuel & Projects | Shell Global

Hydrogen Fuel Cost vs Gasoline

Hydrogen Production: Electrolysis

Electrolysis is the process of using electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen. The reaction takes place in a unit called an electrolyzer.

www.energy.gov

There are a number of hydrogen fueling stations in the Vancouver area right now, I found out while chatting with a guy about his hydrogen powered Toyota Mirai.

 

[Ceedawg]

Ok. How is Hydrogen cheap? The last I looked into this was a few years ago and the way they were getting H, not H2 as it occurs naturally, was by electolosis from H2O? How is that cheap? It uses electricity to separate the H2 from the Oxygen and separates the 2 Hydrogen molecules at the same time. When I checked into it, it was like alcohol, it takes more BTUs to produce it as it is able to produce when burned, so it is a negative energy equation, meaning it takes more to make than it can produce.
What's changed?

How much energy is needed to produce one gallon of gasoline? I’m wondering if it’s about the same but cleaner and cheaper?!

 

[toolmanmike]

How much energy is needed to produce one gallon of gasoline? I’m wondering if it’s about the same but cleaner and cheaper?!

Nobody asks that.

 

[Budnicks]

the problem is still no or very little infrastructure for distribution
albeit could use fuel/gas/diesel fueling stations & retrofit them
& our existing energy suppliers could do it much easier
a whole lot better & easier than an all new Electric infrastructure
for "cars", our electric grid is already taxed to the hilt
& eco-nazis won't let US build Nuclear plants, for cheap abundant electricity

than covering millions & billions of acres with fugly *** windmills
or solar panel farms, that aren't efficient at all
what are you going to do ?
build a bunch of dirty *** electric powerplants, just to subsidize the EV market
they want a 100+ million more of them on the road, by 2035 (?)
let alone they literally 'rape the earth to mine' for the EV crap/batteries etc.
how it that good or green or better for the environment ?
beacuse IT'S NOT

freaken' a--holes/greenies/tree-huggin' eco-nazis
Who is going to pay for all this **** ?
not you & your EVs

Hyd. it's exhaust is water

Hyd. a whole lot more efficient than an EV
& doesn't tax our energy consumption in the USA
Natural Gas is abundant & cheap, in the fuel industry
it actually boosts the fuel industry, we already have
make far more common sense that Electric that runs off
powerplants that aren't green

if you want an EV & want to drive it on public roads hwys
you should be forced to charge if from a Wind or Solar source
or be taxed 'out the ***' 10 fold for electricity to your home
you're not paying fuel tax & that's what fixes & funds the roads
that all of you drive on

freaken' eco-nazis

why not all the above approach
& let the free market dictate
what we want to own & drive

why does it always have to be
'my way or the highway'
you comply or else mandates BS
that's not freedom of choice

freaken' greenies/eco-nazis

 

[DeltaV]

My cars are already hydrogen powered...

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

A close friend's dad used to work for Exxon refinery (since retired) and converted his old 1980's van to hydrogen. He was showing it off to me while I was in the initial stages of doing my mopar restoration in 2012. It was a do-it-yourself project and he'd been working on it for several years to get things working correctly. Said he fills up a tank with water as the H2 source. He's a great guy and you could see the gleam in his eye as he described how it worked and how clean it operated. The one thing I wasn't clear on was how safe it for flammability in the event of a leak and spark.

 

[Photon440]

the problem is still no or very little infrastructure for distribution
albeit could use fuel/gas/diesel fueling stations & retrofit them
& our existing energy suppliers could do it much easier
a whole lot better & easier than an all new Electric infrastructure
for "cars", our electric grid is already taxed to the hilt
& eco-nazis won't let US build Nuclear plants, for cheap abundant electricity

than covering millions & billions of acres with fugly *** windmills
or solar panel farms, that aren't efficient at all
what are you going to do ?
build a bunch of dirty *** electric powerplants, just to subsidize the EV market
they want a 100+ million more of them on the road, by 2035 (?)
let alone they literally 'rape the earth to mine' for the EV crap/batteries etc.
how it that good or green or better for the environment ?
beacuse IT'S NOT

freaken' a--holes/greenies/tree-huggin' eco-nazis
Who is going to pay for all this **** ?
not you & your EVs

Hyd. it's exhaust is water

Hyd. a whole lot more efficient than an EV
& doesn't tax our energy consumption in the USA
Natural Gas is abundant & cheap, in the fuel industry
it actually boosts the fuel industry, we already have
make far more common sense that Electric that runs off
powerplants that aren't green

if you want an EV & want to drive it on public roads hwys
you should be forced to charge if from a Wind or Solar source
or be taxed 'out the ***' 10 fold for electricity to your home
you're not paying fuel tax & that's what fixes & funds the roads
that all of you drive on

freaken' eco-nazis

why not all the above approach
& let the free market dictate
what we want to own & drive

why does it always have to be
'my way or the highway'
you comply or else mandates BS
that's not freedom of choice

freaken' greenies/eco-nazis

I agree with you, our transportation choice should not be mandated. Standards for cleaning up car exhaust has been working for decades to reduce pollution, and there's no reason cars couldn't continue to improve in that aspect.

But you should realize that over half of the states already have some form of revenue stream from electric cars to offset the lost taxes from petroleum fuels, either in the form of a levy when registering the vehicle, and yearly thereafter, or in some cases it goes by annual mileage driven. I'm sure, even though governments seem to move slowly, they'll get their tax money out of EV owners in the end. There are huge buildings full of bureaucrats whose job is simply to find more money for the government and they won't overlook this.

Nuclear power isn't banned, check out the two new plants currently being built (Vogtle 3 and Vogtle 4) in Georgia. If cars switched to hydrogen instead of electricity, more power plants would still be needed just to create the hydrogen. (see links in my previous post #7) Actually around the world right now, about sixty new nuclear power stations are under construction.

I wouldn't think that billions of acres are being covered with solar panels and windmills...there are less than 1.9 billion acres of land in the entire continental USA.

Good points though!

 

[Nxcoupe]

How much energy is needed to produce one gallon of gasoline? I’m wondering if it’s about the same but cleaner and cheaper?!

Lol. No.

 

[Detective D]

Japan has committed to this. They are not doing EV. Of course, setting up a network means making a line from one end of the island to the other.....

All of this stuff should be happening because it makes sense, not because it is forced through laws. For anything. There has been some brilliant gas powered engines made in recent years. Have you seen the 3cyl. Toyota that makes almost 300HP?

EV is pushed so the neo-kings have an "off" switch for when you are naughty.

 

[funknut]

Hydrogen is great as a clean energy source, but the amount of space required to store enough energy in compressed hydrogen gas (at 10,000 PSI) makes it completely impractical for anything except super fuel efficient (boring econobox) vehicles. This guy breaks it down very simply:



In the same space as a 18 gal gasoline fuel tank you can store roughly 2.6kg of compressed hydrogen gas, which is enough to get about 50 mi range at 20 MPG, and I imagine half that if you put your foot in it. So you either have 1) a fun car with super limited range, or 2) something that gets 60+ MPG and can go around 150 miles on a tank.

Or maybe someone wants to ride around sitting on a tank of hydrogen gas at 40k PSI? ;)

 

[Matthew J]

And a follow up email.............


I'm just a layman but I think EV's are ridiculous for too many reasons to list. They are anything but green , they are destructive. Just another article I just read. I hope this EV movement crashes and burns , oh yeah that happens to them too. There is a reason why Honda and Toyota believe in a hydrogen car future. A large percentage of EV owners go back to ICE cars. The legacy auto manufacturer's jumped on and converted to EV's rather quickly. They still build their ICE cars , the politicians are just legislating stupidity with their 2035 all EV mandates. It's backfiring on them already - reality bites.

Hydrogen Cars Could Soon Compete With Electric Vehicles | OilPrice.com

The legacy (domestic) auto makers were already dropping out of the ICE car market even before the big EV push. They couldn't compete against Honda and Toyota and turn a profit. The only vehicles the Big 3 could make money on were loaded SUVs and trucks. They jumped on the EV bandwagon for the government subsidies, not because EVs make any kind of sense. The domestics can't wean themselves from Uncle Sugar's teet.
As for blaming the politicians, voters get the government they deserve.

 

[Ceedawg]

Why does it have to be compressed? Not enough hydrogen/oxigen in a gallon of water?

 

[funknut]

Why does it have to be compressed? Not enough hydrogen/oxigen in a gallon of water?

Separating water into hydrogen and oxygen isn't free and takes a lot of energy.

 

[Photon440]

Hydrogen is great as a clean energy source, but the amount of space required to store enough energy in compressed hydrogen gas (at 10,000 PSI) makes it completely impractical for anything except super fuel efficient (boring econobox) vehicles. This guy breaks it down very simply:



In the same space as a 18 gal gasoline fuel tank you can store roughly 2.6kg of compressed hydrogen gas, which is enough to get about 50 mi range at 20 MPG, and I imagine half that if you put your foot in it. So you either have 1) a fun car with super limited range, or 2) something that gets 60+ MPG and can go around 150 miles on a tank.

Or maybe someone wants to ride around sitting on a tank of hydrogen gas at 40k PSI? ;)

The Toyota Mirai range is 400 miles, I don't know the size of the fuel tank but they seem to have managed to fit it in.