Intake hood fitment and intake/carb recomendations

[696pack]

Will the Edelbrock Performer RPM high-rise, dual-plane intake manifold fit under the stock hood of a 66 Charger? They make both a high rise and a low rise manifold.

I am looking for suggestion for an intake manifold and carb for my 523 stroker that I previously had a factory 6 pack set up on. I know I will likely get a lot of answers with a lot of different suggestions so please limit this to actual experience and not what you THINK or have read somewhere else without any actual personal experience.

My mechanic says an 850 or a 950 cfm is his suggestion with a dual plane manifold. He says a common mistake is too big of a carb and that a 1050 will be too much even though the car HAD a 1350 cfm six pack set up previously.

Here is the story on the engine and my intended use.

523 stroked 440. The cam is a roller with 112 degree lobe separation. Intake .022 valve lash hot .630 valve lift 284 duration Exhaust .024 .608 288, and after indexing the lift is 420/244 I and 405/252 E. The stock heads were ported and flowed. Of course it is balanced and blueprinted. For some reason the compression is not shown on the blueprint sheet, but it will run on pump premium. Factory hipo exhaust manifolds. (don’t get me started on headers or even suggest them it is not going to happen) It will have an electric fuel pump and 3/8 fuel line.

I want the car to have some street manners and am thinking of a vacuum secondary carb. I plan to drive this car daily and I will be adding A/C to the car. It will also have a Passon Performance 4 speed overdrive trans. Probably a 3.54 rear gear but I may step up to a 4.10, undecided as of yet.

 

[696pack]

Anyone??

 

[Moparmatt72]

I don't see why the dual plain wouldn't clear a factory hood, might need to get a drop base for the air cleaner, for that size I would go 950 at least or a 1000cfm carb you have some cubic inches to feed. Have you thought of going with a single plain like a M1 which is lower then most, my dsd had one on his 383 with a 780 carb and cleared his hood on a 68 Charger, drop base and 2" filter element.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Not sure about 66 but on my 69 RR the hood does not fit even with a 2" air cleaner and a eddy drop base Thus the Six BBL hood coming.

I have a RPM air gap and eddy 800 AVS carb about an 1" of isolation between carb and manifold.

 

[Budnicks]

That is a whole lot of cubic inches & allot of camshaft to use a dual plane intake, It won't be Ideal ever... I know you don't want to hear it, the choice of camshaft 0.630"int/284* & 0.608"ex/288* & exhaust manifolds {you could always port the cast iron HP 383/440 manifolds & get some slightly better flow & run 3" exhaust tubing, might help}, but IMHO they will both choke the engine so bad it probably won't matter which intake you choose to use, it should be a torque monster, although the throttle response will/could be very crisp & nice, especially with a smaller carburetor, if tuned properly... The Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane is about an Inch taller, than the std. Edelbrock Performer dual plane manifold, The Performer RPM has at least a 1000rpm higher rev range & larger volume ports {something like 1500rpm-6500rpm vs. 1500-5500rpm on the 383-400 & the RB versions are "I think" around 500rpm lower}, than the regular std. Performer Intake {I have never used a std. Performer, just the Performer RPM}, I have no idea if the Performer RPM would clear the hood on a gen-1 66-67 Charger or not w/a RB wedge {I have used the Performer RPM on a 68 RR & the shorter/narrower B-Engine 383/479ci stroker, w/2" drop base Holley style "Moroso Chrome Air Cleaner" & K&N/Xtreme 3" element/top w/a stock 68 RR hood & about a 1/4" clearance}, like Matt said you could always use a "drop base air cleaner" & I would suggest a K&N filter element & K&N Xtreme Top it will help the flow rate marginally, that you will need... I would suggest maybe you use a Edelbrock Torker II {or something similar} single plane it "may help some with flow"... Neither of the Intakes or the Exhaust is ideal for that large camshaft & large cubic inch displacement, which I guess you already know or have hinted to anyway, a good old school rule of thumb for carburetion is 2 CFM/per Cubic Inch for proper efficiency on a performance or race engine... There is a night & day difference between a 1350cfm 6BBL that is running around on a single 350cfm 2 BBL the 2x500cfm vacuum activated outboard carbs, when you have enough vacuum signal to open them as needed & a single Dominator 1050 4BBL DP w/basically 2 seperate 525cfm 2bbl throttle plates on a Dominator, completely different fuel metering & idle signals than the 6BBL set up, Apples & oranges in comparison... I would suggest the {Quickfuel, Proform, AED, Demon, HP Holley} 950cfm tuned properly over the std. style 1450 Holley 850cfm carb., with that large camshaft & large displacement engine you have & I would highly suggest to by the Book "HOW TO TUNE A HOLLEY CARBURETOR" it will be worth the small investment, for the knowlege... Good luck, Happy Moparing

 

[Budnicks]

Opinions will differ

My mechanic says an 850 or a 950 cfm is his suggestion with a dual plane manifold. He says a common mistake is too big of a carb and that a 1050 will be too much even though the car HAD a 1350 cfm six pack set up previously.

IMHO Actually it's the other way around, too much camshaft & not enough carburetor, is the more common mistake.... :headbang:

 

[IQ52]

With stock ported iron heads and exhaust manifolds you wont be in need of a lot of carburetion. The short single planes like the Holley Street Dominator or the Edelbrock Torker II will give you the hood clearance and work okay with the heads, manifolds and cam. http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,77977.0.html

The 1350 cfm 6bbl combination is the equivalent of about a 950 cfm 4bbl because they are tested at different pressure differentials.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Also the fact that the six pack is a divided plenum intake makes a difference. For a street driver it's usually better to err on the small side with carbs.

Is the six pack out of the question? I have one on my 66 Bel right now and it clears the hood no problem so I don't see why the RPM wouldn't fit with a deep drop base air cleaner. I even measured my STR 14-4 and it will fit with my drop base air cleaner.

As a side note, my concern with running that big of a cam for daily street use (along with corresponding valve springs) is that the valve train won't last. It will also be interesting to know how this all works out in terms of throttle response, idle vacuum and general drivability on the street.

 

[696pack]

I had this engine built with F.A.S.T. racing in mine. I let the six pack go with the A12 I sold that I had this engine in. I think I will buy a 870 cfm vacuum secondary Holley as it will be more street friendly and the car will only see minimual track time.

 

[Budnicks]

full disclosure

I had this engine built with F.A.S.T. racing in mine. I let the six pack go with the A12 I sold that I had this engine in. I think I will buy a 870 cfm vacuum secondary Holley as it will be more street friendly and the car will only see minimual track time.

Now it makes a little "more sense" of why you don't want to use headers, they are against the rules for F.A.S.T. that is some important information you left out of your 1st thread... There is a guy who runs in the 9's :headbang: with skinny "stock dimension street tires" {another F.A.S.T. rule} & factory appearing engine {outside any way} with a "stock sounding" idle {another F.A.S.T. rule, very loosely interpreted} & "stock appearing" cast iron exhaust manifolds {another F.A.S.T. rule}, a 69-1/2 A-12 RR in F.A.S.T. Mancini Racing's advertisement cover car...

 

[696pack]

Yes that is all true however it will never see F.A.S.T. now that the (440) engine will be in a 66 Charger. I just don't like all of the aggravation of headers and am willing to give up the h.p. I will loose without them. The engine is what it is and I am not going to make any changes in it now. I just wanted to see what most thought I should/could use in this car. I think the 870 vacuum secondary Holley is the right choice for me for the way I plan to use the car. There are not going to be many street challengers for this old Charger that will embarass it with the set up I will have.

 

[fatecaptured]

I have a 440 with the same (performer rpm) intake. I installed an 800 cm eddy avs. In a 70 coronet. No spacer. and it looks tight, but mite clear the hood with the dual snorkel. Fingers crossed. I seen many mention the b engines ( 383 low decks) remember the 440's are taller. Let me know, i may have the same problem.

 

[goose69]

I'm a big fan of the holley street dominator intakes. I have one for both my 383 for my roadrunner and 1 for my 440 going into my 66 belvedere. We've used them on many occasions with very good outcomes. They seem to perform better than the edelbrock performer RPM maifolds we tried. Plus its a single plane that is shorter than the RPM. It flows quite well from the bottom end all the way through the 6k range. They're usually a good bargin at swap meets too.
Good luck either way you go.

 

[Budnicks]

F.a.s.t.

Now it makes a little "more sense" of why you don't want to use headers, they are against the rules for F.A.S.T. that is some important information you left out of your 1st thread... There is a guy who runs in the 9's (correction, he runs in the 10's actually) :headbang: with skinny "stock dimension street tires" {another F.A.S.T. rule} & factory appearing engine {outside any way} with a "stock sounding" idle {another F.A.S.T. rule, very loosely interpreted} & "stock appearing" cast iron exhaust manifolds {another F.A.S.T. rule}, a 69-1/2 A-12 RR in F.A.S.T. Mancini Racing's advertisement cover car...

Here are a few of the noteable F.A.S.T. guys, a 68 Hemi RR 9.98et @ 139mph, a 69.5 A12 10.81et, a 63 10.38et @ 133mph... The record holder is an ugly Mustang...LOL... 9.84et @ 132mph.... you better have your **** together to run with those guys & to run those numbers & iron manifold, on skinny tires... Factory Appearing Stock Tire... Good luck with your 66 Charger Project, Have Fun & Happy Moparing....

 

[383man]

With the stock heads I would use either the Performer RPM or the Holley Street Dominator which is not as tall as the RPM so if the RPM dont fit go with the SD. I use the Indy dual plane on my 493 with Indy EZ heads but it has Max Wedge ports and flows pretty good. But I plan to try a single plane soon. Ron