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Iron head test starting on '78 440.

That many derby's and the heads aren't cracked? Amazing.
Are those 516's stock valves w/o porting?

Thanks!

Doesn't the MOPAR world just wish that those were stock 516 heads! No the very best stock 516 port we ever tested was:

.100............65/45
.200..........126/94
.300..........176/130
.400..........203/144
.500..........222/151
.600..........228/153
.700..........234/156

I'm not sure what people do to crack their heads. We have designed and built derby engines to run start to finish without water, the longest was thirty minutes. The valves turned blue, the camshaft bearings melted out of the engine and we reused the heads in a water engine. The heads had some serious valve guide issues but that was it.
 
Doesn't the MOPAR world just wish that those were stock 516 heads! No the very best stock 516 port we ever tested was:

.100............65/45
.200..........126/94
.300..........176/130
.400..........203/144
.500..........222/151
.600..........228/153
.700..........234/156

I'm not sure what people do to crack their heads. We have designed and built derby engines to run start to finish without water, the longest was thirty minutes. The valves turned blue, the camshaft bearings melted out of the engine and we reused the heads in a water engine. The heads had some serious valve guide issues but that was it.

they must have some pretty serious purses on derbies there in Idaho to justify that expense IQ52 LOL
 
Ho-humm. Had to do some preliminary testing on this 7.45:1 compression 440, with stock 906 heads, to make sure we were ready to begin the dyno testing for the public on Saturday the 14th.

As we are handing out gifts to those who guess closest to the PEAK torque and horsepower differences during the parts swaps, I don't believe it would hurt to mention now what the TOTAL difference so far has been without changing the cylinder heads. Starting the pulls at 3000 rpm and finishing at 5500 rpm, we have gained 22 hp at 3000 and 154 hp at 5500. One item at a time, we have changed, headers, carburetor, cam and intake manifold.
 
Can you reveal which cam and intake you used to end up with the 154 HP increase @ 5500 RPM? Is that the 509 cam you talked about using earlier? Ok Ty
 
I will reveal the cam and intake but they aren't the whole story. There is no magic bullet here.

With the 6400 cam it idles at 15-16 inches of vacuum @ 700 rpm and with the 509 it idles at 7" of vacuum @ 1000 rpm and yes the 509 will set there and lope at 650 rpm.

A lot of things have happened to this engine and a lot of other things are about to happen.

You aren't gunna spend $300 here and be king of the world.

It gained 154 horsepower, but what horsepower did it start out at 5500 rpm?

Shoot, we are still using the stock stamped steel rocker arms.

There will be weeks of occasional testing to come on the motor, all the time keeping the stock bottom end with the seven something to one compression ratio. There is NO PLAN to increase the compression to above 7.9:1 at the MOST. So if you can use these parts at a higher compression ratio........you'll be ahead of the game, but we are not going to attempt to quantify a compression ratio horsepower increase for you.

We are not attempting to race dynos here or say you can make "x" amount of horsepower with your engine. We are attempting to see what kind of horespower "increase" you may expect to gain by exchanging one part for another. Yes we will keep track of the horsepower and torque peaks, but the real story will be the average gain throughout the rpm range.
 
I am interested in seeing how the Weiand Team G intake performs, as well as the TM-7, and the Holley Street Dominator. Although they are all single plane X type manifolds, they appear to be quite different in design. Am anxiously awaiting results of the cylinder head testing.
 
That many derby's and the heads aren't cracked? Amazing.
Are those 516's stock valves w/o porting?

Thanks!
In all the years I've been messing with big blocks (first one I had was in 1970), I've never cracked a head and one set were max ported 906's on a 440 that had over 300 passes running 10.60's in a 68 roadrunner.....
 
So, here is our first dyno pull with a 1972 440, .040" overbore for 448 ci, cast pistons 7.45:1 compression, cast crankshaft, stock 906 iron heads, 1967 600 cfm Carter 4bbl, 1972 factory cast iron intake, Summit Racing SUM-6400 camshaft 214/224 @ .050 .444"/.466" lift 112 LS 106 ICL, 1964 factory cast iron exhaust manifolds.

Are you laughing at the exhaust choice? You haven't seen what the factory HP manifolds do! They come next.

RPM..................TQ.................HP

2500................414...............197
2600................402...............199
2700................403...............207
2800................402...............215
2900................399...............220
3000................403...............230
3100................397...............235
3200................399...............243
3300................399...............251
3400................391...............253
3500................385...............257
3600................380...............261
3700................371...............262
3800................365...............264
3900................358...............266
4000................350...............266
4100................348...............271
4200................336...............268
4300................332...............272
4400................323...............271
4500................313...............268
4600................304...............266
4700................295...............264
4800................283...............259
4900................267...............249
5000................260...............248
5100................249...............241
5200................231...............229
5300................225...............227
5400................214...............220
5500................204...............214

Mind you, this is with a fresh valve job and new rings. So now you know, roughly, what your power would be like if you bought a low mile motorhome or Chrysler New Yorker 440 from 1972-1978 and plunked it in your B Body.

IS there ANYTHING I can bolt on to help this pig? What difference will it really make?

Hold on, as I said, the first thing we try is HP exhaust manifolds.

HP, thats High Performance you know, they gotta be good! Right?
 
I'm guessing the "HP" manifolds didn't help at all?
 
I'm guessing the "HP" manifolds didn't help at all?

Lets put them on.

RPM......................TQ...................HP

2500....................413.................196
2600....................405.................200
2700....................398.................205
2800....................403.................215
2900....................400.................221
3000....................402.................230
3100....................401.................236
3200....................401.................244
3300....................401.................252
3400....................394.................255
3500....................386.................257
3600....................386.................265
3700....................374.................264
3800....................372.................269
3900....................360.................267
4000....................354.................269
4100....................353.................276
4200....................344.................275
4300....................337.................276
4400....................323.................270
4500....................310.................265
4600....................301.................264
4700....................289.................258
4800....................274.................250
4900....................268.................250
5000....................250.................238
5100....................249.................241
5200....................236.................233
5300....................220.................222
5400....................210.................216
5500....................198.................207

You judge.

Me, I'm buying headers, even a $150 pair will give way more performance. We have a cheap set but weren't able to set up the dyno this time for the ball connectors they have. So the next pull will be with our dyno headers. Step headers, 1-3/4 X 1-7/8 X 2 X 3" collector.
 
So it looks like they were worth about 4 hp? Bring on the cheap headers!
 
Jim had a great time in Challis yesterday, can't wait for your next dyno day. Heres some photos for you. IMG_0221.jpgIMG_0222.jpgIMG_0223.jpgIMG_0224.jpgIMG_0225.jpgIMG_0226.jpgIMG_0227.jpg

IMG_0221.jpg IMG_0222.jpg IMG_0223.jpg IMG_0224.jpg IMG_0225.jpg IMG_0226.jpg IMG_0227.jpg
 
Thanks Kent, the group from the Chicken Coop really helped to make it a great day.

The cheap headers will be another day. Here are the dyno headers, they're not really suited to this engine but they have made 787 HP on a 451.

RPM..................TQ.................HP

2500................427...............203
2600................422...............209
2700................416...............214
2800................419...............223
2900................419...............231
3000................419...............239
3100................417...............246
3200................417...............254
3300................414...............260
3400................406...............263
3500................399...............266
3600................393...............269
3700................386...............272
3800................376...............272
3900................376...............279
4000................368...............280
4100................365...............285
4200................357...............285
4300................348...............285
4400................342...............287 +19 TQ
4500................328...............281 +19 TQ
4600................318...............278
4700................311...............278
4800................298...............272 +22 HP
4900................278...............259
5000................271...............257
5100................263...............255
5200................247...............244
5300................234...............237
5400................224...............230
5500................213...............223
 
Now we remove the 600 cfm Carter and replace it with a 750 cfm Edelbrock Performer.

RPM.................TQ................HP

2500...............432..............206
2600...............423..............209
2700...............419..............216
2800...............419..............223
2900...............421..............232
3000...............424..............242
3100...............422..............249
3200...............421..............256
3300...............416..............261
3400...............412..............267
3500...............406..............270
3600...............399..............274
3700...............395..............278
3800...............391..............283
3900...............383..............285
4000...............376..............286
4100...............370..............289
4200...............368..............294
4300...............363..............297
4400...............350..............293
4500...............338..............290
4600...............326..............285
4700...............313..............283
4800...............305..............279
4900...............286..............267
5000...............274..............261
5100...............266..............259
5200...............247..............244
5300...............237..............239
5400...............231..............238
5500...............207..............217

The carb ran great and gained at every RPM.

What we have is exhaust gas temperatures all over the board because of the stock iron manifold.........change it, CHANGE IT!
 
It will be another large gain to put a good intake on it. You might hit 350hp with this thing if you keep changing things lol
 
It will be another large gain to put a good intake on it. You might hit 350hp with this thing if you keep changing things lol

Oh yeah, we "might" get 350 HP..............or beyond........maybe......

Here is the power output with the intake. We used an old Mopar M1 single plane off the storage room shelf. It is box stock 'cept for some clear coat somebody sprayed on it.

Dear me boys and girls, I know the Edelbrock RPM Performer would be a better manifold for this test, but I don't have one unless I take it off another engine. Just be thankful you get to see how the engine responds to the single plane M1.

RPM.................TQ...............HP

2500..............416..............198
2600..............409..............202
2700..............405..............208
2800..............404..............215
2900..............404..............223
3000..............415..............237
3100..............421..............248
3200..............422..............257
3300..............422..............265
3400..............420..............272
3500..............418..............279
3600..............414..............284
3700..............408..............287
3800..............407..............294
3900..............399..............296
4000..............395..............301......ah ha! 300 HP, next goal the 350 range!
4100..............391..............305
4200..............387..............309
4300..............381..............312
4400..............371..............311
4500..............363..............311
4600..............348..............305
4700..............335..............300
4800..............322..............294
4900..............311..............290
5000..............298..............283
5100..............280..............272
5200..............265..............263

We got a little valve float on the previous run so we backed off on the upper RPM a bit until we could be sure we were able to safely run it higher. The power was dropping of anyway so why worry the engine more than neccessary.

Next we change to the Mopar Performance 509. Wadayathink? Can we get 350 or more with less than 8:1 and the 509?
 
Oh yeah, we "might" get 350 HP..............or beyond........maybe......

Here is the power output with the intake. We used an old Mopar M1 single plane off the storage room shelf. It is box stock 'cept for some clear coat somebody sprayed on it.

Dear me boys and girls, I know the Edelbrock RPM Performer would be a better manifold for this test, but I don't have one unless I take it off another engine. Just be thankful you get to see how the engine responds to the single plane M1.

RPM.................TQ...............HP

2500..............416..............198
2600..............409..............202
2700..............405..............208
2800..............404..............215
2900..............404..............223
3000..............415..............237
3100..............421..............248
3200..............422..............257
3300..............422..............265
3400..............420..............272
3500..............418..............279
3600..............414..............284
3700..............408..............287
3800..............407..............294
3900..............399..............296
4000..............395..............301......ah ha! 300 HP, next goal the 350 range!
4100..............391..............305
4200..............387..............309
4300..............381..............312
4400..............371..............311
4500..............363..............311
4600..............348..............305
4700..............335..............300
4800..............322..............294
4900..............311..............290
5000..............298..............283
5100..............280..............272
5200..............265..............263

We got a little valve float on the previous run so we backed off on the upper RPM a bit until we could be sure we were able to safely run it higher. The power was dropping of anyway so why worry the engine more than neccessary.

Next we change to the Mopar Performance 509. Wadayathink? Can we get 350 or more with less than 8:1 and the 509?

Was this with the 600 or 750 carb?
 
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