Red-Head Steering Gears
Sorry the location is Auburn, near Seattle and Tacoma.
Sorry the location is Auburn, near Seattle and Tacoma.
Issues with Firm Feel
- Thread starter hunt2elk
- Start date
ckessel
Well-Known Member
I know they deal with the Dodge 4x trucks, have a great reputation for a quality piece. Good to know they do the older cars.
mpgmike
Well-Known Member
I would like to speak from the perspective of someone that has experience as a buyer, and also as a vendor. Of course, we all have experience as a buyer(!). As a seller, I found that I could deliver the goods 1000X and get great reviews, but that one guy I couldn't service properly put me in my grave. I had a great business porting heads. I did a head for a guy, and he was estatic. He asked me to port another head for him, which I really didn't want to do. With his excessive prompting, I said yes. I regret that decision to this day. My reservations to accepting his request was that I probably couldn't deliver, due to other professional demands. My professional direction changed. I ported his initial head, and he was more than pleased! He wanted me to replicate that performance to another head (different brand, different engine), which I felt confident I could I could do if I had the time... But I didn't... I am forever branded as a Scam Artist because of that one single decision, that one single job which I should have said "NO" to up front. I screwed up and said yes when I couldn't deliver.
There are geniuses that have delivered the goods for years, maybe even decades with a 100% satisfaction guarantee, 5-Star feedback, then failed to satisfy 1 single individual that became vocal.. Sometimes there are circumstances that justify a delay in delivery (death, relocation, change of day-job...).
Usually when someone doesn't cut the mustard, they're scammers. I get it. Just give a bit of allowance to those folks that have consistently delivered the goods for decades and suddenly are unable to satisfy you. There might be a justifiable circumstance that they are enduring that really doesn't reflect on their professionalism where they simply cannot deliver to YOU at this time. I must confess, if someone doesn't deliver, it is probably their nature. However, there are really good companies that are struggling through a tough time. Once they get past their challenge, they will once again deliver consistently. Remember, parts that were readily available for decades are now on 1-year back-order. I know that for a truth as it affects me!~
There are geniuses that have delivered the goods for years, maybe even decades with a 100% satisfaction guarantee, 5-Star feedback, then failed to satisfy 1 single individual that became vocal.. Sometimes there are circumstances that justify a delay in delivery (death, relocation, change of day-job...).
Usually when someone doesn't cut the mustard, they're scammers. I get it. Just give a bit of allowance to those folks that have consistently delivered the goods for decades and suddenly are unable to satisfy you. There might be a justifiable circumstance that they are enduring that really doesn't reflect on their professionalism where they simply cannot deliver to YOU at this time. I must confess, if someone doesn't deliver, it is probably their nature. However, there are really good companies that are struggling through a tough time. Once they get past their challenge, they will once again deliver consistently. Remember, parts that were readily available for decades are now on 1-year back-order. I know that for a truth as it affects me!~
cal30_sniper
Well-Known Member
I ordered a good pile of FF stuff for my Volare earlier this year. Subframe bushings and control arm reinforcement plates shipped right out. UCAs and Swaybars got hung up. I ended up calling when they were about 2X past the quoted delivery date. Stuff had changed on my end since placing the order, and I asked if they had another buyer in line that he could let my order go to and refund my money. They didn’t, but he did offer to refund anyway due to the delay. I felt bad about hurting a small business, and told him to just keep going with it. He was upfront about one of their machines being down and causing almost total uncertainty about when the parts would be finished.
Couple of weeks later, he called me and said he’d lined up someone else for my order. Check was in the mail shortly after that for my refund.
I’d do business with them again. For the early B’s, there’s a ton of aftermarket options. For the late B’s (or stuff like FMJs) Firm Feel is the only game in town. I’m glad they’re bringing something unique to the market, and hope they continue to do so.
Couple of weeks later, he called me and said he’d lined up someone else for my order. Check was in the mail shortly after that for my refund.
I’d do business with them again. For the early B’s, there’s a ton of aftermarket options. For the late B’s (or stuff like FMJs) Firm Feel is the only game in town. I’m glad they’re bringing something unique to the market, and hope they continue to do so.
I had great luck with them. No issues at all. However, it was before all this crazy stuff of the past few years. I’m sure supply chains and employees are issues as they are for many businesses across the nation. No excuses for them either. If you can’t supply the product, they should be upfront and not take your money until they can supply.
hunt2elk
Well-Known Member
I hope this comment of yours is not directed at me. As a self employed small business owner I am well aware of how to make a go of it as this is our 50th year. I realize that absolutely everything from supply chain issues, price increases, to getting people to work, has been turned upside down the past 3 years. I am a HVAC guy in WI and struggle with getting ahold of a new furnace to replace a non functioning unit in the middle of winter for crying out loud.
I have bought quite a bit from FF in the past with absolutely no problems whatsoever. No doubt I hope he is just dealing with common issues that all of are right now. They sell some very nice stuff and that is the reason I decided to go with his rear sway bars even though they are the most expensive ones out there by far.
The things that bother me about this deal is #1 if you tell the customer 8 weeks, then it should be 8 weeks. If something comes up preventing this, a simple phone call explaining what is going on is all it takes to pacify me. And #2, charging me the full amount of $1165. and then sitting on it for 4 months just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe I am in the minority, but I never charge anyone until my products are installed in a customer's house.
So it all boils down to I sure hope there are no issues with FF. I like their products and will continue to buy from them. He does need to work on keeping his customers in the loop when delays occur however.
hunt2elk
Well-Known Member
2 sets of rear sway bars showed up today. They look like nice quality stuff. No instructions however. You guys who have used these, must need the weight on the wheels before installing the frame brackets?
chtampa
Well-Known Member
First off, those tires aren't going to work very well, even with a sway bar.
hunt2elk
Well-Known Member
Lol, probably not. Ironically, that is why I want to try these bars, although not for tractor tires. Curious as to how much body roll is minimized.
Charlie Brown
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I bought the same rear sway bar. Also had the same delays in shipping. They do have install instructions, but you have to ask for them - that's weird. An extra piece of paper in the packaging is not a great cost. The biggest beef I had with FF is their web site. It clearly states the following - "Will clear: Dr. Diff's rear disc brakes". Well I have Dr. Diff rear setup and guess what - sway bar didn't fit. So the offered solution was to swap the rear discs side to side and back of axle to front. Also, would need to re-configure brake lines and new emergency cables. This is a little more than a bolt on. I'm OK with doing this work, but there is no mention of this on their website. My research lead me to believe that their sway bar was the best fit for my build - even at twice the price of all others. I am not happy with their customer service and after purchase support. I suggested to Frank that he amend his website to include updated customer information - that was 6 months ago and I still notice no changes. Below is the email I sent Frank. I would have thought that a reply would be warranted. Still awaiting a reply.
Good Morning Frank,
The solution seems to be for me to spend more money to get your product to fit my car (brake cables) as well as refabricating brake hard lines.
I did a ton of research for a rear sway bar for my car. I chose yours for several reasons even though it was twice the price of all others.
Your web site specifically states your product will fit with the rear brake system I have. There is no mention of possible re-configuration of existing brake system. I also note that there is no installation documents on your web site which could aid in ones decision to purchase or not. This would be helpful information. I find it strange that at the very least that there were no install instructions included with the kit.
I accept the fact that being an international customer increases my cost of doing business in this hobby, I've got $1,000 in your product and now I'm being told to spend another $200 for another set of custom brake cables and re-fabrication of hard line brake lines. Had I known that this was going to happen, I may have opted to buy one of your competitors products.
Bottom line is, I feel that your firm has some areas that need attention, not only in product description, but also in customer service. We've had a previous conversation about product delays, so no need to cover here again.
In regards to calling international clients and the "High" cost associated with this - really? I know that you know, that there are business phone bundles that allow for unlimited international calls at a fixed rate. Sounds more like avoidance to me.
hunt2elk
Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting that info. I have 3 inch exhaust and Strange 60 rear ends in both these cars. He assured me that neither of these things would pose a problem with the installation of their bar, I sure hope that is correct. They didn't once mention any issues with brake lines to me either. Said they would bolt in with no problems. I was the same as you in doing the research and deciding these were by far the best bars and mounts made for our cars. I did have a hard time paying over twice as much as his competitors however, and will be a bit peeved if that isn't the case. So to get a copy of the installation instructions, I have to call him back and have them emailed to me?
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If an aftermarket part replaces a factory part and there are no modifications needed, I could almost understand a vendor NOT including instructions.
Most of the time though, we are adding something that is not stock. Rear sway bars, rear disc brakes, manual transmission kits, air conditioning kits, power windows, etc.
These can be figured out by a decent installer but why make it harder for them? What would it cost to include a couple of reprinted pages?
Most of the time though, we are adding something that is not stock. Rear sway bars, rear disc brakes, manual transmission kits, air conditioning kits, power windows, etc.
These can be figured out by a decent installer but why make it harder for them? What would it cost to include a couple of reprinted pages?
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chtampa
Well-Known Member
I have that sway bar on the back of my convertible and love it. It is also just like the Police/Taxi factory optioned version. I had a picture of a factory unit to go by. You will spend a bit more time with brake and fuel lines and exhaust routing, everything is very close to each other. I also ordered a slightly larger front from FF and machined new rubber bushings and sway bar brackets to help keep them unseen and my car stays flat on an on-ramp, no body roll at all. Take a cigarette with you for afterwards.
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
They are good people and I have done several cars using their parts over the years.
After my last two (pleasant) dealings with them I walked away with the impression that the success of the business cause them to outgrow both their operational and management structures. Frank, Dick and Matt are all great guys. I figured they would have abandoned the home based shop and moved to an industrial park by now. They have been 6 months out as long as I can remember and thats going back 15-20 years. That must be a stressful way to go through life.
Time to get multiple machines and make inventory IMO.
After my last two (pleasant) dealings with them I walked away with the impression that the success of the business cause them to outgrow both their operational and management structures. Frank, Dick and Matt are all great guys. I figured they would have abandoned the home based shop and moved to an industrial park by now. They have been 6 months out as long as I can remember and thats going back 15-20 years. That must be a stressful way to go through life.
Time to get multiple machines and make inventory IMO.
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Firm Feel.....gone long ago.....
Just kidding.
Trying to finish up the build on the old
Plymouth, just about every entity I've
ordered parts from have statements
of delays for their parts. I'm in a
different boat, though. Finding parts
for a custom build 80 year old truck
has been tough from the get go.
Not to mention returned goods due to
the wrong parts being sent, or broken
glass. Finally got the windows and
regulators in after three tries. It took
3 months for just for the regulators,
and had to modify the arms for
mirror image. A little shop time w/
grinding and welding.
Just kidding.
Trying to finish up the build on the old
Plymouth, just about every entity I've
ordered parts from have statements
of delays for their parts. I'm in a
different boat, though. Finding parts
for a custom build 80 year old truck
has been tough from the get go.
Not to mention returned goods due to
the wrong parts being sent, or broken
glass. Finally got the windows and
regulators in after three tries. It took
3 months for just for the regulators,
and had to modify the arms for
mirror image. A little shop time w/
grinding and welding.
Last edited:
Boydsdodge
Member
I have been using Firm Feel for 20 years on a dozen cars. This year was different, I haven't spoken to Matt or Dick in a long time. Feels like Frank is on his own or close to it.
I waited 5 months for 73 GTX front bar, having some questions on fitment, not getting a response. I came here to see if there was any discussion on 73 B-Body install and found these thread.
I really have enjoyed using Firm Feel all these years, but after this I won't start pulling a car apart until parts arrive. This killed any happy service for the car owner, and my pocket.
I waited 5 months for 73 GTX front bar, having some questions on fitment, not getting a response. I came here to see if there was any discussion on 73 B-Body install and found these thread.
I really have enjoyed using Firm Feel all these years, but after this I won't start pulling a car apart until parts arrive. This killed any happy service for the car owner, and my pocket.
Yeah unfortunately that's the way she goes with about anything nowadays...
I have another engine to build but I'm not even thinking about starting it until I have the bearings, cam etc in my hands.
There is a reported UPS scam involving Firm Feel. Says a 38 lb package is on the way. Got the Stage 2 in 2021 and all is well. I called Matt at FF (369)546-3633 (good guy) to confirm. FYI ONLY.
Boydsdodge
Member
I have install two of the Firm feel rear sway bar kits on B-bodies, my 67 Coronet wagon and a 68 Charger. All went easy as a stock install with 2.5 TTI exhaust and Bilstein shocks.
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