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K FRAME UP GRADE

I have 2 friends who have used the crown Vic and both have had some serious problems with what is described as flexing or warping and both cars are inop until they plan their next step. One is under a 72 Satellite and the other is under a 75 Monte Carlo that’s been put back together too many times. I don’t think that’s a very sturdy piece.
 
I have no issues with Ford or any other companies suspension. One thing Ford did at least half right was the twin I beam truck suspension. They should have used some of that on their cars….that suspension is pretty stout and I have tried many times to find a weak spot without success. Lol…
 
I have 2 friends who have used the crown Vic and both have had some serious problems with what is described as flexing or warping and both cars are inop until they plan their next step. One is under a 72 Satellite and the other is under a 75 Monte Carlo that’s been put back together too many times. I don’t think that’s a very sturdy piece.
If you ever have doubts about Ford's twin I beam watch Mr Majestyk

 
Yup, Streetrodders where swapping IFS systems into their old streetrods that originally came with either a straight axle or if new enough to have early IFS those systems were pretty basic... Streetrodders were using whatever they could from donor vehicles... The are plenty of 67-69 Camaro clips, Chevelle clips, plenty of "Mustang II" clips then the Pacer & Volare clips... The guys in the know tended to use the Volare & Pacer because of the slightly bigger vehicle means the geometry is closer to the vehicle it's being swapped in to... But the Mustang II got used allot because it is fairly narrow allowing more room for tires without weird wheel offsets... But it's designed for a small light vehicle so the geometry is a poor match but it's still better than the original 1930's -1950's stuff...

However Mopar's torsion bar suspension was some of the best engineered stuff available in the 60's & 70's, just look at how many competition events Mopar preformed very well in...
So replacing it with Mustang II/Pinto doesn't make allot of sense to those of us who are more concerned with performance than change for the sake of change...
Wild is right,
I have done several '50s cars and trucks and the Volare was big years ago. It made for a cheap, easy (although funky and heavy) swap. As that stuff got harder and harder to find we started going to the MustangII/ Pinto stuff. I run several parts of an Alterkation kit under my "55 and made the rest. Have also used Fatman IRS suspension under a few '55 Fords with good results.

That said, I would not replace the factory torsion bar stuff on anything short of a dedicated drag car, when weight, header clearance and quick adjustability becomes important.
 
OK I will take another bite just because. Modified could be a fancy way of saying that the width between the spindles has been increased which means the track width will be closer to the car being modified. In other words the spindles are still the same.

I am not trying to start a fire, but sales is sales and word play really works great because at the end of the day the only goal is putting cash in the bank from making sales. Just my opinion and professional experience and that’s all. Buyer beware.

No, the modification is to the steering arm on the spindle. It is longer and has an extension that pushes the tie rod point down. This is a photo of the lower half of an alterkation kit. RMS then made me the upper arms and eccentric adjusters.
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No, the modification is to the steering arm on the spindle. It is longer and has an extension that pushes the tie rod point down. This is a photo of the lower half of an alterkation kit. RMS then made me the upper arms and eccentric adjusters.
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This is really good information and specific details that help make the decision about cost versus benefit. Thank you for your posting pictures.
 
For anybody curious that may not have seen one, the Volare front suspension was a large, isolated K-member that had the L-shaped torsion bars go across the front of the K-member. The torsion bar also acted as the strut rod. The neat thing about this front end is that the upper control arm and shock mounted to a big bracket that bolted onto the isolated k-member and not the frame. Here is one under a '51 dodge.

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To be fair, Chad's car didn't beat the Porsche. Chad, driving his Mopar, beat the other driver driving his Porsche.

Chad did all the engineering and wrenching on his car though. Presumably he made changes he thought would work for him.

No, the modification is to the steering arm on the spindle. It is longer and has an extension that pushes the tie rod point down. This is a photo of the lower half of an alterkation kit. RMS then made me the upper arms and eccentric adjusters.

Is that the only modification? If RMS is forging new spindles, maybe they changed the Ackerman angle as well. I don't know how Ackerman angle is set, but I'm guessing the axle stub or steering arm are titled one way or the other. A couple degrees change would be hard to detect without measuring for it.
 
Is the stock spindle forged?

The website you linked to won't load. It says it doesn't like the time on my computer, but other websites don't mind.
 
Is the stock spindle forged?

The website you linked to won't load. It says it doesn't like the time on my computer, but other websites don't mind.
I am not sure if it is forged to be honest.
If you google search "Ackerman? Or not? Does it matter?" including the quotes it should take you to the page. If not PM me and I will email the pdf to you.
 
The Popular Hot Rodding video I posted on pg 3 says the Mustang II spindle is forged. Judging by the rough surfaces on our spindle, I would "guess" it is cast iron with some surfaces machined flat. It would surprise me if the Mustang II spindle was forged when ours is cast, which is what made me think RMS was forging their spindles. But if they were, wouldn't they adjust the mold to give them the steering arm angle they need?

If ours is forged and that's the way it's normally done, than it all makes sense.

I'll have to look at the Ackerman angle stuff later.
 
I think you are right they are all forged from the factory. I can't imagine that RMS would have the capability to make their own spindles and that explains the welded changes.
 
I found this post -

"PC - Here's the technical 411 (from my materials handbook): 1045 steel is a medium carbon cold or hot drawn utility steel. It has 43-50% carbon; can be hardened, tensile = 90-110 ksi; yield = 55-85 ksi. Not easily welded. Tougher to machine than hot rolled. Pretty strong stuff.
Cast iron, by comparison, has 1-7% carbon, a tensile of 60-70 ksi, and a yield of 40-50 ksi., is not hardenable, is weldable and easily machined.
Cast iron's main claim to fame for spindles is that it can be cast into the wierd shapes that spindles usually are and, if cast with thick enough sections, is plenty strong enough for the application, but will be heavier than 1045 to handle the same loads.
While 1045 steel is stronger by weight, cast iron is very tough stuff, absorbing shock reasonably well.
The bottom line is if I was rock crawling, I might want the 1045. If I'm just doing hard driving (including some rutted roads at speed) the cast iron is swell. 1045 is not a casting material, so the spindle has to be machined from a large blank of material. The cast iron is economical to cast at a near-net size.
I'll bet there's not a lot of similarity in the prices for these two parts.
There you go."

Link

If Iron isn't hardenable, can it be "forged?" AFAIK (which isn't much), forging is for steel or aluminum. I doubt the Pinto got expensive forged components, or that the Mustang II did either. So if the RMS spindles are forged, and are steel (or aluminum, I doubt aluminum), than they are an in-house spindle; or an aftermarket spindle they got from somebody else. The latter makes more sense if RMS is cutting off the steering arm and welding it back in a different position.
 
Speedway Motors has the Mustang II spindles in "heat treated alloy steel." I found a thread on a vintage Mustang forum talking about the possibility of Global West making forged aluminum spindles. Global West makes aluminum spindles for GM's a-body. I don't know if they ever made them for Mustang 1, 2, or whatever - but if the Popular Hot Rodding guy correctly identified the RMS spindle as "forged," than it looks like it would have to be aluminum. That would reduce unsprung weight and give an advantage over the factory cast iron spindles, but the idea of an aluminum steering arm welded onto an aluminum spindle is a little eye opening. I'd hope the guy doing the aluminum welding is a champ who never has a bad day.
 
No, I know for a fact that the RMS spindles are iron not aluminum. I have installed several RMS alterkations.
 
It wouldn't be hard to tell if you've held one. So either it's possible to forge iron, or Popular Hot Rodding messed up and they're cast. Have you seen anything from RMS that says they are forged?
 
On FABO there is a utube video of a 4 door B body with factory suspension upgrade beating a BMW3 on Tire Rack test track. Even Tire Rack test driver can't believe how it handles. I think it has Hotchkiss suspension.
Yep, 70 plymouth satellite 4 door big block manual transmission beating the tires off a bmw, you know a "drivers car"
 
Hi Guys,
I was wondering if you can point me in the right direction.
I really hate the way my 69 charger handles. I would like it to be more stable and predictable for normal driving on the street. Terrible bump steer and the car really leans when turning.
On the freeway, it drives like a dream as long as you don't hit bumps or have to turn slightly. Let go of the wheel and it stays true.

The previous owner rebuilt the entire (stock) front end. It also has sway bars front and rear. New rear leafs too. The front end has been aligned.

I would rather not do a full front end suspension change (QA1 or similar) and would rather just change whatever helps me to get somewhat better street handling.

I have been searching but I can't seem to find a forum topic that can help me.

Thank you in advance.

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