Low Speed Heating and What to Replace or Upgrade

toearley

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1971 440 4bbl 4spd in 74 body. Have overheating problems on "city" type stop and go traffic -- worse of course on hot summer days. I've taken things apart, flushed radiator, and have new thermostat. In breaking things down, I'd like to replace the intake neck, water pump and housing with aluminum. I've heard Milodon is a good way to go, and read a lot of opinions on fins, number of, spiral, etc. I also plan on a new fan and all new hoses. I should mention I have taken off the AC and all associated parts -- never worked, and never used it. I've replaced the distributor late last season and am still working on the timing -- I understand timing could be part of the problem. Now that I've got things broke down, I also will be replacing alternator/brackets and replacing or restoring remaining pulleys.

MY QUESTIONS ARE: Does anybody have a reliable source for aluminum water pump, neck and housing (and all hardware/gaskets)?
Does anybody have a go to water pump brand?
If I go from AC to non-AC should the pulleys be changed out to a 2 groove? If so, what's a reliable source for pulleys?
Any tips on low speed overheating problems or installing/testing any of this would be helpful.
THANKS.
 

Dabobo1955

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Is this a new problem or has it always been like that. What size radiator u got. Do you have a fan shroud. I also had that problem. I went with dual fans.
 

Dennis H

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Original shroud. When having the exact symptoms, it was found that the thermal clutch fan was slipping. Difficult to diagnose. Got a new Hayes thermal fan and problem was solved.
 

toearley

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Had the car for 2 seasons and it's always been there -- just "drove around it." Overall dimensions on alumn rad are 27w x 20h x 2d -- has plastic shroud. No extra fans installed.

- - - Updated - - -

The fan does not look original and to be honest I'm not sure if it's thermal or not. But I do plan on replacing it. Is it wise to add a thermal clutch fan if it was not original? Does it matter?
 

multimopes

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For a reliable source for the water pumps, housings, etc. try (440source.com). They specialize in 440's and have all sorts of aluminum housings and any thing else you need and their prices are very reasonable. Their tech staff can also suggest what to look for. Also , don't forget to check the section here on FBBO on (heating, cooling and A/C). Lots of good info there.
Good luck to you!
 

RT SE 440

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there is a whole thread about 440 source.com water pump housings were people using their replacement aluminum housings got more over heating problems then the original cast housing if i can find the thread i'll add it.as far as clutch type or thermal fans your car should have one originally and a steel 7 blade fan with shroud. here you go http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html
 

multimopes

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I never heard anything negative about those folks or their products. I did read somewhere that if you buy one of their housings to make sure that you use a pump with impellors that were compatible with it. Thanks for the heads up and the link to an interesting article!
 

djais1801

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69/70Plymies

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Had same problem with my '70 Sport Satellite 383 4 sp. with 22" rad. This is what I did: 1)Disassembled and dipped block in caustic bath. The water passages had a lot of rust scaling. 2) Added factory fan shroud. 3)New stock water pump. 4)Added re-enforced lower radiator hose to prevent collapsing. 5) Stock radiator was professionally cleaned and pressure tested. 6)New 180 degree thermostat. 7)New stock 16 psi radiator cap that was tested to 16 psi! Don't assume a new one works. You must test them. Otherwise, if they do not test right your boiling point will be lowered. It took me three new caps to find a good one. 8)Set timing advancement using vac gauge.

Now, the car runs at 180 and 190 on hot days.

Keep this in mind: There are ways to cool down coolant temp. However, proper circulation is the key to a "healthy" engine for long term performance. Some of the new re-engineering "fixes" are only hiding the real problem(s).
 

furyus

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Had same problem with my '70 Sport Satellite 383 4 sp. with 22" rad. This is what I did: 1)Disassembled and dipped block in caustic bath. The water passages had a lot of rust scaling. 2) Added factory fan shroud. 3)New stock water pump. 4)Added re-enforced lower radiator hose to prevent collapsing. 5) Stock radiator was professionally cleaned and pressure tested. 6)New 180 degree thermostat. 7)New stock 16 psi radiator cap that was tested to 16 psi! Don't assume a new one works. You must test them. Otherwise, if they do not test right your boiling point will be lowered. It took me three new caps to find a good one. 8)Set timing advancement using vac gauge.

Now, the car runs at 180 and 190 on hot days.

Keep this in mind: There are ways to cool down coolant temp. However, proper circulation is the key to a "healthy" engine for long term performance. Some of the new re-engineering "fixes" are only hiding the real problem(s).

One other thing is to verify the accuracy of the thermostat in a pot of water, and a cooking thermometer. Both of the ones I had were off.
 

SaskRunner

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MY QUESTIONS ARE: Does anybody have a reliable source for aluminum water pump, neck and housing (and all hardware/gaskets)?
Does anybody have a go to water pump brand?
If I go from AC to non-AC should the pulleys be changed out to a 2 groove? If so, what's a reliable source for pulleys?
Any tips on low speed overheating problems or installing/testing any of this would be helpful.
THANKS.

440 Source has what you need.

http://store.440source.com/Cooling-System/departments/11/

I have the same stuff on a 500hp 451" stroker.

That along with a refurbished 28" rad, shroud and a 7 blade fan keeps the motor cool.

I would run the pulleys you have first before worrying about changing them.

Any parts store should be able to get you felpro gaskets for what your doing, or use silicone.

These gaskets are supposed to be good, but a few $$ more.

http://www.superformanceproducts.com/
 

rrTor-Red

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there is a whole thread about 440 source.com water pump housings were people using their replacement aluminum housings got more over heating problems then the original cast housing if i can find the thread i'll add it.as far as clutch type or thermal fans your car should have one originally and a steel 7 blade fan with shroud. here you go http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60599.0.html

There's also a thread somewhere with same issues you're having but can't find it. In the thread, it compared 440 source to Milodon. This might be the issue you're having. The fins are smaller on the 440 source as compared to the Milodon. IDK. Not in anyway, bashing one and praising another. 440 Source does have many good products as I myself, have purchased from them

http://store.440source.com/images/1131005.jpg

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mil-16260/overview/
 

SaskRunner

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Only one source

Does anyone other than 44Source make an aluminum passenger side water pump housing for 73 and up cars?

In the threads about the poor quality castings, they only show the 72 and down drivers side housings.
 

jeepers007

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To be fair, that dodgecharger.com post is really old. Even the more recent comments are questions and not firsthand experience with their recent designs.

I would welcome comments from anyone who has bought a source housing in the last year.
 

Montclaire

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By overheat, do you mean that it actually overheats and pukes coolant, or just runs hot? If it just runs hot, how sure are you that it is actually running as hot as the gauge says?

I believe that the 440 source casting was changed but who knows. Mancini has an early style that is affordable. You shouldn't need to swap to an aluminum housing to properly cool the motor.

If you overheat at low speeds, but are ok at freeway speeds, then it's a fan/shroud etc issue. Over 35mph you don't even need a fan, if you overheat then, then it's a flow or rad problem.

If you are going to get into swapping pulleys and brackets, just swap them all. There were dozens of pulley families over the years and getting them all to mate up is difficult if you aren't using a matched set. Bouchillon should have what you need.

You need a shroud that seals properly, and the depth of the fan within the shroud is also important. I am not a believer in aluminum aftermarket radiators. I like the Glen Ray replacement units. I have also gotten by with no issues using a 1800-Radiators unit, but be aware that these have smaller tubes and thinner cores than stock. Use with a repop factory shroud and a MP clutch fan kit.

Use a felpro intake gasket with the heat cross over blocked off.
 
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