Lowering the car but turning the control arm?

[96Formula6sp]

Hey everyone. So I am digging out our old lemons 1972 coronet that was last raced in 2018. We are finally fixing our small tire issue from years ago. Car was running 245/40/15 to cheat the rear end ratio and we only had 15 inch wheels. Anyways those days are over and we are going to an 18x10 with a 275ish tire. While test fitting out borrowed wheels we found that the current suspension is very close to being bottomed out while its sitting on the ground. The car does have some Firm Feel 1.18 inch race bars installed from the previous owners. This is the car sitting on an 18x10 with the suspension loaded. It seems to be sitting very high. Torsion bars have 3-4 turns in them. They were up around 10 turns. It dropped maybe 1/2 inch.

I am wondering if the previous owners did not clock the torsion bar right. As we bounced the car we found our -3 or so degrees of camber goes to almost zero. As the suspension is traveling down. So in the corners that would explain the nasty outside tire wear as we are loosing camber not gaining it. Is this something we could fix buy taking the torsion bar out. Raising the lower control arm up to the next slot for the torsion bar to go back in. This should raise the upper control arm out where its banging into the body of the car as the bump stop has disappeared. Doing this should get the upper control arm level so that when weight goes on it in the corner we should be gaining camber not loosing it. It should also give us more turning clearance as the wheel wants to run into the control arm as its hanging low. Am I crazy for thinking this or is there another way to lower these cars down. I see many other ones with the wheels tucked into the body. Some may have drop spindles but have the suspension at full droop all the time probably explains the ball joint wear as well.

 

[gkent]

there is no "clocking", there is no front or back, there is only left or right

Yoda

 

[j-c-c-62]

Are we on same page? "Bottom out" means in my world, there hardly any travel left in jounce.
If that is the case, clocking of the TB's will offer no improvements from what you share above about already being bottomed out.
You are left with smaller rims/tires (silly), or dropped spindles, which actually might worsen your camber numbers you shared with your existing UCA, are you allowed to replace/shorten them?
If on a smooth track, you might be able to shave your bump stops, say a .25" at the bump stop might gain you .5" of wheel travel. or try a set of heavier TB's, what engine are you using ie how heavy?
This is also ignoring what your roll centers might become with these changes..
I am assuming that is a 30 aspect tire?

 

[Rennkafer]

I'm curious, I've seen the stock camber curves on that vintage B body, and they definitely gain camber. I'm wondering how you're going positive, unless something is bent or otherwise out of spec.

 

[96Formula6sp]

So I'll make a diagram tomorrow of what I am trying to to say. Currently with the car in that picture the upper control arm is very close to resting on the body. So there is zero droop on the suspension. If I am correct the lower control arm hole for the torsen bar would technically have six positions that you could turn it. Granted probably 4/6 are not available.

Maybe I'll say it this way. Currently the torsen bar is sitting will both control arms all the way down. Say for the drivers side I take the torsion bar out and jack the control arm up so that the next flat counter clockwise was lined up to put the torsion bar back in. That should help lower the car and get the suspension back where it's supposed to be. I'll make a diagram tomorrow after work.

 

[j-c-c-62]

I'm curious, I've seen the stock camber curves on that vintage B body, and they definitely gain camber. I'm wondering how you're going positive, unless something is bent or otherwise out of spec.

Something must be up with the UCA or lowers seems to me, not being OEM or something.

 

[j-c-c-62]

OK, you might need to remove you bumpers and disconnect shock at the least likely and move your TB's one notch, if you can do that, and start over, we had a terminology issue here starting out

 

[khryslerkid]

There's only one position in the lower control arm that works. If you move the torsion bar one flat either way it doesn't work.

 

[j-c-c-62]

There is always a way.

The Op is in a jam, based on what his goal is and the current result he has pictured IMO.

 

[96Formula6sp]

Here is the suspension setup. Currently it's stock lower control arms. The uppers are a set of tubular from firm feel. No sway bar on the car right now.

 

[96Formula6sp]

Sorry for the delay got busy the last couple nights. Below is a picture on what I am talking about.

 

[khryslerkid]

Here's a picture of the torsion bar one flat out of position. The red arrows are pointing to white lines that would normally line up. Look at the adjuster arm. One flat the opposite direction from where the lines line up, the adjuster arm would be way down inside of the control arm.

 

[96Formula6sp]

Ill double check. I think our adjuster is way down into the control arm. Someone is going to look at the car this weekend and confirm.

 

[dadsbee]

I thought it was impossible to be 60 degrees off with a bar in an LCA.. BUT, there ya go. That said, if you don't notice that the adjuster ear is heading for the moon... well...

 

[khryslerkid]

This is one flat down too far. The red arrow shows where the adjuster arm is. You can't even install the adjuster block and bolt into the control arm.

The only flat that works and what it looks like.

 

[96Formula6sp]

This is one flat down too far. The red arrow shows where the adjuster arm is. You can't even install the adjuster block and bolt into the control arm.
View attachment 1618469

The only flat that works and what it looks like.
View attachment 1618470

Yeah that's what what it looks like on our car. I guess the adjuster needs to go super high then. I'm not the one who installed these or even knew it was an issue but here we are.

 

[khryslerkid]

Yeah that's what what it looks like on our car. I guess the adjuster needs to go super high then. I'm not the one who installed these or even knew it was an issue but here we are.

Inspect the lower control arm bushings. If they're blown out it can make things sagg.

 

[#41]

I can't picture the issue in mind but I can tell you what I did to get a race car low with humungous T bars: I cut the hex sockets out of the rear crossmember and welded them back in clocked. It was a long time ago, so I can't tell you how much I rotated them... but its and effective way to do it if you don't have or can't afford drop spindles.

 

[Kern Dog]

Oddly, I just read a Mopar Action magazine yesterday and this topic was mentioned. Ehrenberg mentioned that cars with soft rate torsion bars got different thread pitch and count on the adjuster screws than the cars with higher rate bars. It seemed strange that they would do that. I think his rationale was that the higher rate torsion bars were more sensitive to adjustment so they had a finer thread count on the screws.

 

[ckessel]

And check the sleeves in the k-frame that the control arm shaft go through. Welds can crack letting the sleeve spin, get wallowed out etc.