No Radio = No Turn Signals!

[Bruzilla]

That might well be true, but if I listened to him I would still be spending my evenings laying on the floor of the cockpit troubleshooting under the dash, or waiting for UPS to deliver a new turn signal switch that I didn't need, or doing a host of other things that wouldn't have gotten those blinkers blinking because I would be ignoring the radio plug wires because they just couldn't be the problem as per the schematics.

Instead I listened to burnoutking-1 over at Moparforums.com, who I know nothing about besides he had the exact same problem I did, and had the correct solution for it, and now I'm busy fretting about a headliner install rather than wasting more time and money fixing the signals.

So, moving forward, if you get/have a car with the original radio and you remove said radio and discover your turn signals no longer work, you won't have to spend days trying to find the problem.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Here’s burnoutking-1’s final posting on the thread referenced over on Moparforums.com;

“Problem Solved. The little cluster of wires and plugs I thought were for the radio, in fact a red and black needed to be spliced together. Not sure why they would have been cut, but never thought that a red and black would be connected in the first place.”

As in this case, rather that following correct electrical troubleshooting procedures, starting with, referencing the wiring diagrams, using diagnostic tools, like a voltmeter, to trace the open in the circuit to the problem connection or components, he started with guesswork and throwing parts at his problem to no avail, other posters responding to his thread there pointed out the common connection in that circuit at the radio plug as indicated in the wiring diagram.

You started this thread titled “No Radio = No Turn Signals!” and then proceeded to make numerous false statements such as these; “the power for the turn signals is routed through the radio!!!”, “If you take the radio out, you have to splice the black and red/white wires together to get your turn signals to work again.”, “The turn signals get their power through a totally different circuit than the radio, but the power is routed through the radio”, “Chrysler did this was to make it harder for people to use non-Chrysler radios in the cars”, “the power for the signals runs through the radio”.

Once more, “The power for the turn signals was not routed through the radio. Disconnecting the radio at the intact factory connector will not disable the turn signals. If the radio power connector is cut off the dash harness, has failed or otherwise has been damaged, it will be necessary to restore the original series connection between the Red/trace and black wires for the turn signals to function. These types of series connections are very common in the automotive wiring of all types.”

 

[theman440]

I take offence to ANYONE criticizing Chrysler engineers.

 

[amar67]

Interesting thing about this post... although there is a "slight" disagreement here... the discussion is definitely what I would call "PRODUCTIVE". if not for both "Bruzilla" and "72RoadrunnerGTX" taking the time to bring their knowledge together, I would not have the useful info I needed to fix my turn signals! In my case it was just a blown fuse and the symptoms were the turn signals, radio and backup lights were not working... but given I haven't looked under the dash of a B-body in almost 30 years... this information was invaluable. Thanks guys!

 

[bigredbird]

:boxing: —> :love6:


ccasion14:

 

[Bruzilla]

Interesting thing about this post... although there is a "slight" disagreement here... the discussion is definitely what I would call "PRODUCTIVE". if not for both "Bruzilla" and "72RoadrunnerGTX" taking the time to bring their knowledge together, I would not have the useful info I needed to fix my turn signals! In my case it was just a blown fuse and the symptoms were the turn signals, radio and backup lights were not working... but given I haven't looked under the dash of a B-body in almost 30 years... this information was invaluable. Thanks guys!

Thanks for the kind words, but I can accept no credit. I toiled under the dash for weeks looking for the problem until a poster on another Mopar forum pointed out that evil, evil, radio plug. :angryfire:

 

[69Bee]

As a degreed Electrical Engineer, I have to add that these connections are not in series, but rather in parallel. If you disconnected a device in series, no power would continue down the circuit, ie.. a fuse. A parallel connection will run many items allowing you to disconnect one or more without breaking the flow of current to the rest of the circuit.

As far as the signals working, disconnect the radio (signals not working), then splicing the wires back together to fix the signals. It is quite simple and logical. The power feeds thru the radio connector, and NOT the radio. You disturbed the radio harness connector breaking the continuity provided via the crimp by the termial. After you spliced the wires, it worked again because you just reconnected the terminal crimp via a wire splice. It is not rocket science, you just fixed a broken 40 year old joint that failed after you disturbed it. They did not provide any AM radio tampering systems in Mopars back then...:sideways tongue:

 

[440roadrunner]

I take offence to ANYONE criticizing Chrysler engineers.

Get ready to be offended

 

[YY1]

Here's what I know from the past 30 years and 12 Mopars.

None of my cars had their turn signals quit after the factory radio was removed.

Lots of times a mod to another subsystem causes unintntional rerouting that is difficult to figure out and normal looking "down the line".

There is the "ghost radio/signal/flasher/wiper" issue where on most older (and some newer) Mopars, you can turn on the flashers, wipers, radio, and (usually left) turn signal...wait for it...and the radio and wipers will pulse with the flasher rythm.

Yeah, two left knoobs...from the same company that had DIN cassete (recorders) 10+ years ahead of everyone else.

Most corvettes wont start if you remove the factory radio.

Dude, someone stole my stereo....and now I can't drive my car....who the F wants that ??

 

[Bruzilla]

I never had the problem either, but the six cars I had before this one all either never had the radio out or the radio was long gone when I bought it. That's what had me so frigging confused for weeks. I knew whatever it was had to do with removing the cluster and the radio because the signals worked before I removed these and didn't afterwards. I kept checking fuses, wires, schematics, crystal balls, and everything else I could find, and then I read the post where the guy said once you unplug the radio, you have to splice the radio plug wires together. I thought he was crazy, but by that point I was one step away from hiring an old priest and a young priest to exorcise the damn thing and poof! Turned out the wires were the problem.

Can't explain it. Can't justify it. It just worked.

 

[440roadrunner]

Unplugging a connector and cutting wires that TERMINATE in a connector are two different horses. And if one wire termination "happens" to be loose, and when you disconnected it, the wire lost connection, that is nothing but a simple connector failure.

This ain't rocket science, you don't drive the Space Shuttle, and things like alignment of the planets is not relevant LOL

 

[Bruzilla]

Unplugging a connector and cutting wires that TERMINATE in a connector are two different horses. And if one wire termination "happens" to be loose, and when you disconnected it, the wire lost connection, that is nothing but a simple connector failure.

This ain't rocket science, you don't drive the Space Shuttle, and things like alignment of the planets is not relevant LOL

When such a thing happens on one car, I'll buy the connector theory. When it happens on multiple car? Sorry. No sale.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Wow, I thought we but this one to bed some time ago.

"As a degreed Electrical Engineer, I have to add that these connections are not in series, but rather in parallel. If you disconnected a device in series, no power would continue down the circuit, ie.. a fuse. A parallel connection will run many items allowing you to disconnect one or more without breaking the flow of current to the rest of the circuit."



Acknowledged, the correct technical description of the electrical circuit designs in play here is Parallel, the loads (in this case radio & turn signals) are arraigned in parallel circuits. I was attempting to describe a “series” of crimped connections along a single conductor path, of which a problem with any one of them would disrupt circuit flow to the loads downstream. One thing I never understood about these older cars, what is the point of changing wiring color codes on various segments of the same conductor path.

 

[69Bee]

Wow, I thought we but this one to bed some time ago.

"As a degreed Electrical Engineer, I have to add that these connections are not in series, but rather in parallel. If you disconnected a device in series, no power would continue down the circuit, ie.. a fuse. A parallel connection will run many items allowing you to disconnect one or more without breaking the flow of current to the rest of the circuit."



Acknowledged, the correct technical description of the electrical circuit designs in play here is Parallel, the loads (in this case radio & turn signals) are arraigned in parallel circuits. I was attempting to describe a “series” of crimped connections along a single conductor path, of which a problem with any one of them would disrupt circuit flow to the loads downstream. One thing I never understood about these older cars, what is the point of changing wiring color codes on various segments of the same conductor path.

Agreed, and I too am puzzled why the wire color changes.

 

[Ron 73]

Ive found that a lot of my problems were self induced, i try to change something on a car and something stops working, everything each manufacture puts on a car regardless what or how they do is for some reason for the time present. I don't understand why things Need to be one way or the other for something to work, but im sure they had some kind of reason.

 

[Bruzilla]

Like I wrote before, if you take out your stock radio and your turn signals quit working, splice the wires from the radio plug and it'll all be good.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Let’s review the facts one last time;

"Those two wires were “spiced” together originally, as designed, at the single female spade connector in the dash harness radio plug."

"If you found it necessary to restore the connection between these two wires(red/white&black) to regain turn signal function, then this crimp was bad/failed or the connector had been damaged or cut off."

"As originally designed, simply unplugging the radio from the dash harness at the connector in question will NOT disable the turn signals as stated in the OP."

 

[mjb765]

Let’s review the facts;

"Those two wires were “spiced” together originally, as designed, at the single female spade connector in the dash harness radio plug."

"If you found it necessary to restore the connection between these two wires(red/white&black) to regain turn signal function, then this crimp was bad/failed or the connector had been damaged or cut off."

"As originally designed, simply unplugging the radio from the dash harness at the connector in question will NOT disable the turn signals as stated in the OP."

What confuses me is how many times you have had to say that. It is clearly obvious by looking at the connector that the 2 wires were connected at the factory crimp. Simply unplugging the radio would not change that--maybe it would disturb it enough that the crimp would fail--even on 2 cars, but those 2 wires were CONNECTED inside that factory crimp from day one. Removing the connector and splicing them together is just re-doing the factory connection, which is what fixed the problem.

 

[Ron 73]

The car should soon be out of the paint shop soon, This is more then likely already fixed and new gremlins await the final assembly. looking forward to seeing this car with the new decals.

 

[70RR]

The Wiring Guru's

I agree with you mjb765..For some one that Bitched about wasting his time in Posts ..He sure wasted a lot of it Posting the same thing SO many Damn Times :eusa_think: Huh?... It is alway great to know all the Experts out there......70RR

What confuses me is how many times you have had to say that. It is clearly obvious by looking at the connector that the 2 wires were connected at the factory crimp. Simply unplugging the radio would not change that--maybe it would disturb it enough that the crimp would fail--even on 2 cars, but those 2 wires were CONNECTED inside that factory crimp from day one. Removing the connector and splicing them together is just re-doing the factory connection, which is what fixed the problem.