Old school 440 build

[BSB67]

I wouldn’t really make any “plans” on how to proceed until it’s been inspected/measured....... and you know what you have, what’s good, and what needs replacing.
Then make the plan.

I will say this....... if I had to buy pistons..... I’d be building for quench.

This.

And there are some nice options for quench when starting with 915s........if you insist on iron

 

[33 IMP]

WHOOPS! Just reread op's first post . 360 converter will NOT work with a pushbutton trans without the trans being converted to a later style input. It would be a good idea to make the modification to open up converter selection.

 

[33 IMP]

I URGE you to read IQ52s post referenced in post#3, this thread. That info is pure GOLD!!!

 

[Montclaire]

I wouldn’t really make any “plans” on how to proceed until it’s been inspected/measured....... and you know what you have, what’s good, and what needs replacing.
Then make the plan.

I will say this....... if I had to buy pistons..... I’d be building for quench.

Of course, just trying to get a game plan going so I know what my range should be.

 

[Montclaire]

WHOOPS! Just reread op's first post . 360 converter will NOT work with a pushbutton trans without the trans being converted to a later style input. It would be a good idea to make the modification to open up converter selection.

Trans has a lot of goodies, including a later input shaft, bolt in sprag, HP steels, maxie governor and 4.2 lever so I am ok there.

The converter is weighted for external balance - this may have been a different amount from big to small block initially but from what I have seen the aftermarket doesn’t usually differentiate. I’ll have to dig on that a little to be sure.

To be honest the converter is a little on the conservative side but I’ve had super loose ones in the past that have me gun shy. I think with the mods to the trans and the 3.91s it’ll be ok.

 

[Montclaire]

And what pray tell might this 440 be going intoView attachment 952009

A very clean 64 dodge. Think Dave Strickler’s 64 post car without the lettering.

 

[Montclaire]

This is about what it will look like. Fawn interior. Has anyone tried M&H street/strip tires? I really like cheater slicks from Towel City but I don’t trust them on the street. The M&Hs look like they have half decent tread but still look vintage enough for me to use them for rears.

What’s appropriate for 64 - 8” wide tire? I think the early steelies only went to 15x6?

 

[khryslerkid]

A very clean 64 dodge. Think Dave Strickler’s 64 post car without the lettering.

I had a deal to by one of Daves '64 post cars. One of his friends talked him out of selling it. (It was a parts car he had at his place, not one that he raced)

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Montclaire]

I had a deal to by one of Daves '64 post cars. One of his friends talked him out of selling it. (It was a parts car he had at his place, not one that he raced)

Keep us posted on your progress.

That would have been awesome. If I remember correctly, Dave’s original 64 AFX car was sold to George Whalen from Dalton, PA. George raced it for a while and then upgraded to like an early Cuda flopper. The AFX car is still around AFAIK.

My one cousin Jerry Santorsa campaigned a max wedge 64 Plymouth from 1968-72. It was an ex-Timmy Richards car that I think Timmy sold when he went with Karl Gould. Jerry told me about him and Jerry Stein (Teacher’s Pet) playing with different length header tubes until late at night trying to get into the 10s (I think at Island?). He also went up against the Fink Brothers, I think at the 72 Gator Nationals.

Timmys 63, “Taxi II,” was a real factory maxie that came out of Montclaire Motors in Scranton (my grandfather worked there from the 60s until the place closed in the mid 80s).

My old neighbor had a repair shop and nearly every Monday morning the 63 would be sitting there with a blown trans. Eventually Timmy decided to learn how to rebuild the trans himself and the rest is history.

My uncle was riding in the 63 when Timmy decided to stretch its legs on an unfinished section of I-81. This caught the attention of the local police who tried to give chase but Timmy left them in the dust. When they finally caught up, Timmy was already sitting in his living room like nothing had happened. Better days.

 

[Nate S]

Nope. Not if they're both 727 transmissions with the same spline count. I've done it too.
Mike

Spline count is the trick here. A push button would be 19, a ‘70 anything would be 23 or 24 depending on lockup. Better be sure it fits over the input shaft before you go too far.

 

[Montclaire]

I’m pretty sure it’s a 24 spline which would be non-lockup. The trans was done 5+ years ago and I know this was addressed at the time but the details aren’t on the tip of my tongue anymore.

 

[69Bee]

Op says he is using A&A 440 style crossram, and they Do seal the intake to the china wall, like a chevy.

I was actually more referring to the fact that it was a 440 not with the intended intake to be used. While I did miss the intake the OP intended to use, that has no impact on my post. I stated how I square the blocks, and have no idea what manifold my customer might use if he builds the motor, or changes out what I put on for that matter. It is important to machine the entire engine correctly and properly every time, including the "Block VALLEY RAILS"...

 

[IQ52]

What a great thread. From what I saw it sounds like I am fine to use the stockers. Now, if the block needs more than just a hone job I’ll end up picking a better flat top piston but I think something like a Speedpro 2355 would be overkill, esp with the 915s.

I dunno. Here is an old school build with the old 6-BBl style pistons and stock rods...............tests go from 404 HP to over 650 HP.

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/pops-440-is-near-ready-to-dyno.64775/

 

[Montclaire]

I dunno. Here is an old school build with the old 6-BBl style pistons and stock rods...............tests go from 404 HP to over 650 HP.

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/pops-440-is-near-ready-to-dyno.64775/

If that's with the 6pk pistons then they must be way in the hole at 8.9 CR. If my lo-po 73s put the motor around a true 7.8 and I'm adding a point with the closed chamber, quench friendly 915s, I should be in the same ballpark, no?

While younger me would be drooling over those 600+ hp numbers, older me knows this car doesn't need that much power. The trans probably taps out around 500hp, so any more than 425-450 and this build gets out of control for what it is.

What I don't want is a 200 hp dog and I think this thread has proven that won't be an issue.

 

[33 IMP]

I think you may be optomistic, thinking you will gain a full point with the 915s. If your pistons are down .160 in the hole, you are at 7.5-1 with typical 906s (89-90 cc). If your 915s are actually 75cc, you can get to around 8.3, but if they are really 82 like my closed chamber heads, you are still under 8-1.
With pistons lots closer to zero deck, the smaller chamber does add a full point.

 

[IQ52]

If that's with the 6pk pistons then they must be way in the hole at 8.9 CR. If my lo-po 73s put the motor around a true 7.8 and I'm adding a point with the closed chamber, quench friendly 915s, I should be in the same ballpark, no?

While younger me would be drooling over those 600+ hp numbers, older me knows this car doesn't need that much power. The trans probably taps out around 500hp, so any more than 425-450 and this build gets out of control for what it is.

What I don't want is a 200 hp dog and I think this thread has proven that won't be an issue.

With the compression height of the L2355F pistons, "way in the hole", to my way of thinking/calculating isn't going to happen.....because 6.768 + 2.061 + 1.875 = 10.704. Unless you think .021" is "way in the hole"? There are some interesting results when you just do what has been suggested in the below quoted post. Research, measure & calculate.

I wouldn’t really make any “plans” on how to proceed until it’s been inspected/measured....... and you know what you have, what’s good, and what needs replacing.
Then make the plan.

I will say this....... if I had to buy pistons..... I’d be building for quench.

 

[BSB67]

With the compression height of the L2355F pistons, "way in the hole", to my way of thinking/calculating isn't going to happen.....because 6.768 + 2.061 + 1.875 = 10.704. Unless you think .021" is "way in the hole"? There are some interesting results when you just do what has been suggested in the below quoted post. Research, measure & calculate.

This.

Honestly, there is really nothing in this post that tells us that you will not have a 200 hp motor and/or a turd regarding car performance. I think what this post shows is that if every thing is done right, despite the cam and compression, you still might have an okay running car.

 

[33 IMP]

I think Montclair is trying to figure how the 2355 sixpack pistons got to 8.9-1. I was kinda wondering the same thing. I calculate flat tops at .021 down at 11plus with 915s, and mid tens with 906s. I would like to know what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Montclaire]

I think Montclair is trying to figure how the 2355 sixpack pistons got to 8.9-1. I was kinda wondering the same thing. I calculate flat tops at .021 down at 11plus with 915s, and mid tens with 906s. I would like to know what I'm doing wrong.

Right. I mean if that is consistent for 2355s in a stock block on factory rods it would land me somewhere between 9.5 and 10 CR with 915s. I’m fine with that. Where I don’t want to be is around 11.

 

[BSB67]

I think Montclair is trying to figure how the 2355 sixpack pistons got to 8.9-1. I was kinda wondering the same thing. I calculate flat tops at .021 down at 11plus with 915s, and mid tens with 906s. I would like to know what I'm doing wrong.

It's simple math and not worth dissecting every single word a guy says.

Put in the 1.99" piston and fine tune the desired compression ratio with the head gasket. That's what I'd do - cheap but no quench. For those that believe that all motors live and die based on quench, buy a 2.06" piston with a 13 cc dish. But then you're looking at balancing, and bushing the rods for the likely 0.990" pin.

Once the motor is apart and the measurements are done, its 2 minutes with a calculator, and 30 minutes in some piston catalogs to figure it out.