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opinions on these heads!

kru510

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/261413986599?item=261413986599&viewitem=&vxp=mtr

they seem to outflow anything on the market for the price. I currently am rebuilding my 440 that has 516 heads. comp is 9:5.1 on the bottom end. Stroker is in the future so just want to get all my parts now but until then just gonna rebuild the bottom end with a hyd roller cam and bolt these heads on along with harland sharp 1.5 roller rockers.
 
Pro comps. Research the parts you'll need to run these, as a lot of it is specific to these (and Victor) heads. I'd also add in the price of having a machine shop look them over before using them to verify everything is correct.
 
Reeks of China. Run away.

Great backdrop on the guys pics too. Looks like a barn...real professional.
 
I don't know the guy, but it seems a little unfair to be bashing him. Looks like he's using Pro Comp heads, CNC'ing em and going through them for a VERY fair price. I'll contact the seller and let y'all know what he says.

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Besides, his description shows some obvious Mopar knowledge and doesn't have the feel of some Chinese outlet at all.

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Here's his hand ported units.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321343807643
 
3068 is the CNC ported Procomps and 3065 are the standard Procomps. He list the part numbers on both auctions.
 
I don't know the guy, but it seems a little unfair to be bashing him. Looks like he's using Pro Comp heads, CNC'ing em and going through them for a VERY fair price. I'll contact the seller and let y'all know what he says.
the ad sure would have you believe that HE is CNC machining them. I would pose this question first.

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Besides, his description shows some obvious Mopar knowledge and doesn't have the feel of some Chinese outlet at all.

perception in advertising does not make these heads any less Chinese. If you think it's any different that any other China head without putting machine tools to it and installing quality parts, then you have fallen for the ad.

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Here's his hand ported units.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/321343807643

All the good intent and knowledge isn't going to "will" quality seats and guides into those heads.

As far as bashing the guy...well, I actually have a rule, myself. I won't buy anything online where the seller has grammatical and punctuation errors in his ad. Ok, a few here and there are understandable (we're not rocket surgeons), but the ones that were written by a 6 year old...no. The other rule is, when the pictures look like they were takin in a dump....no-go for me.

Would you really buy a used roller cam from a guy who snapped a picture of it in the back of a dirty, filthy pickup truck bed?? I've seen it on ads.

The ad on these heads says nothing to the accuracy of the machine work, seat runout, guide clearance, etc.

I don't like it, but that's just me. I'm standing by my No-China head policy. I don't really care who's selling them.

You asked what people's opinion was on these heads. I'm telling you that Chinese heads are substandard parts. Every time I see a set, I cringe. We won't repair them anymore.
 
I sent him a message asking what hardware he uses, does he go through them thoroughly, who's CNC program he uses, etc. Here's his response...

Howdy,
The valves and parts are speedmaster. I check every seat and vacuum check every head after assembly. The Program procomp has now is a product of years of work by procomp and some feedback from me actually. It is way better than it was even 2 months ago. I have been porting heads for over 20 years now. Hundreds of sets have come and gone from my shop. I hand port here, but I also check every cnc head too.

Thanks for now,

Rob
 
All the good intent and knowledge isn't going to "will" quality seats and guides into those heads.

As far as bashing the guy...well, I actually have a rule, myself. I won't buy anything online where the seller has grammatical and punctuation errors in his ad. Ok, a few here and there are understandable (we're not rocket surgeons), but the ones that were written by a 6 year old...no. The other rule is, when the pictures look like they were takin in a dump....no-go for me.

Would you really buy a used roller cam from a guy who snapped a picture of it in the back of a dirty, filthy pickup truck bed?? I've seen it on ads.

The ad on these heads says nothing to the accuracy of the machine work, seat runout, guide clearance, etc.

I don't like it, but that's just me. I'm standing by my No-China head policy. I don't really care who's selling them.

You asked what people's opinion was on these heads. I'm telling you that Chinese heads are substandard parts. Every time I see a set, I cringe. We won't repair them anymore.

What manufacturer would you suggest for both big and small block heads? Aluminium as well as iron. Assuming any complex part will need at least a little tweaking, who makes the best, closest to bolt-on-and-go heads? Keeping streetabilty and cost in mind.
 
What manufacturer would you suggest for both big and small block heads? Aluminium as well as iron. Assuming any complex part will need at least a little tweaking, who makes the best, closest to bolt-on-and-go heads? Keeping streetabilty and cost in mind.

Jon,

I'm not trying to dodge your question, but it's more that manufacturers and part numbers to get the right parts sometimes.

Starting with cast iron heads for Mopar most performance engines, I think once you are at a performance level whereas a mildly worked over stock head is not enough, you are going to make the jump right to an aluminum head. With the chamber, port and valve sizes available, you can buy pretty close to what you need.

It never made much sense to me to buy a street head and have to do $1000 worth of port work, when there may be another choice in the aftermarket that gets you closer to what you need with minimal modifications. It makes sense in both performance and retained value.

As far as aluminum heads, personally, we buy them bare and do all our own seat, guide, and port work as required. This way, we have ultimate control over the quality of the parts we use, seat angles, and ensure that the guide clearance and valve/seat runout is held to precision tolerances. Most performance shops can do this, and I mean, actual shops that machine and build engines.

The final amount you spend will generally be close to the same as than buying a factory assembled "ready to run" head, and paying to have them reworked to be perfect. In addition, you will have quality valves, springs and parts from a known manufacturer, not a "low bid" supplier that most factories use. Believe me, if "Brand E" used Manley or REV valves, they would have it in their ad. It would be a substantial selling point.

I think Edelbrock, Indy, Stage V and other USA made manufactures make excellent cylinder head castings. Coupled with the right parts and quality machine work, you can buy a true "bolt-on" performance head.

Sometimes it takes knocking on a few doors, asking the right questions and shaking a few hands to get good results. If you can stand in a man's shop and he can show you how he does his work, what his tolerance limits are, and if he can sell you exactly what you need, you can't lose.
On the internet, you are limited to words, pictures and advertising. I would wager to guess that most sellers don't have a single piece of machinery.

I see too many sets of heads that I wish here never touched to begin with. Excessive seat runout that needs correcting will sink the valves that much more. Guides that are poorly sized, and heads assembles without the proper spring seat hardware and wrong retainers is way too common.

Worst case, even if there is not a shop right in your town, with forums like this, and their networking, it should be easy enough to find where to go to get what you need.
 
They sure look and sound good in the ad but I'd feel better if I could at least pull them apart and check the work. High dollar items like this I prefer to take them in my self to a shop with tools and knowledge, or do whatever work I can do myself. Also, how do you know the CNC porting wasn't a messed up program? Perhaps they are on rev W now and these are rev C. Don't look at CNC porting as a magic word because the machine programmer can mess things up just as well as the guy with a hand grinder. It's just the CNC mistakes will be at a higher precision level.
 
Last set of pro comps to come thru cost as much as indy in work after fixing all the **** and replacing guides and valves and getting it all right.

Awesome deal, 1400, it's like buying bare castings, and throw everything away they came with.
 
On a + note : Look at his feed back and see he is 100% with all thos sales .
That is a good thing I would think ??
 
Just because some people on eBay are chislers doesn't mean that everybody on eBay is. It seems like his feedback on the heads he sells is good. I would ask him about if they have been clearanced for pushrods. I've read the Procomps have messed up angles for the pushrods that need to be corrected. Hughes Engines can do it for $80 per pair. Also, be aware you will need the offset intake rockers with these.
 
Last set of pro comps to come thru cost as much as indy in work after fixing all the **** and replacing guides and valves and getting it all right.

Awesome deal, 1400, it's like buying bare castings, and throw everything away they came with.

Well said, Supershift

I've also seen the valve seats radially crack after short amounts of run time. One guy caught his before the seats fell out. If anyone has ever replaced seats, you'll know that it also involves hours of matching them to the ports again.

The set we did, was a very expensive repair, more than the castings cost new. Problem was, the guy had an expensive port job so he wanted to save them. After it was said and done, he had the same money spent on his heads as buying a set of BMF heads, fully CNCed and ready to bolt on.

I won't repair Chinese heads anymore. You can't even weld on them. It's like trying to weld a styrofoam cooler with a pretzel stick.

Here's the way I see it. Buying a Chinese head is like saying "I don't care about our own economy, our American workers, and what the finished product is on my engine. I only care about saving a few bucks right here and now".

Indy, and Edelbrock are fine companies who have designed and build parts, at a great expense and investment, in support of the racing and hobby industry. They reinvest in the sport, employ our friends, and give back to support the racers through contingency programs. The pride in their product is American pride. They could knock all their manufacturing off shore, but they don't.

China company's R&D program is "ripoff and duplicate". Their only agenda is to make money. Their aluminum is junk, heat treating nonexistent, machine work poor and their parts are scourced through the lowest bidder with no concerns of quality.

When someone approaches me with an engine project that is based around China parts, I respectfully decline to take the job. I don't want to deal with the junk parts, or the displaced agenda of the guy who owns them. This rarely happens. I and very lucky to have customers who are knowledgeable and quality conscious.

I'm not trying to slam the OP. It's anybody's right to buy what they want. I see it time and time again though, guys trying to get enough people to support their decision to buy cheap parts. Like having a creative ad on eBay or good feedback is going to actually change the fact that the stuff is junk, after all it was left by guys who just bought Chinese heads...NOT a real great source of product validation.
If 10 guys tell you it ok to jump off a bridge, it ain't gonna make the landing any softer.
 
I got a story to tell....
I was an INDY dealer for many years. I used to bring in LOTS of their stuff.
I got so sick and tired of having to FIX the stuff "as delivered", for Free... trying to look after my Customers.... I finally dropped them !

I still use lots of INDY stuff, the difference being these days... that if I bring it in... it is at the Customers discretion, and if it is not "right"... I get PAID to fix it !

Morale of the Story.... If you are going to go with ProComp stuff, get a warranty, or get it brought in by someone/shop that will stand behind it, which in this case it looks like this Guy is doing.... just verify reputations, etc.
 
I got a story to tell....
I was an INDY dealer for many years. I used to bring in LOTS of their stuff.
I got so sick and tired of having to FIX the stuff "as delivered", for Free... trying to look after my Customers.... I finally dropped them !

I still use lots of INDY stuff, the difference being these days... that if Ij bring it in... it is at the Customers discretion, and if it is not "right"... I get PAID to fix it !

Morale of the Story.... If you are going to go with ProComp stuff, get a warranty, or get it brought in by someone/shop that will stand behind it, which in this case it looks like this Guy is doing.... just verify reputations, etc.

With all due respect to many of the manufacturers, I only buy castings from them. I know what you're saying. I just finished a set of "bolt on" CNC heads from a very well known USA made company. .007" seat runout may be good enough for production, but it doesn't cut it here.
Same deal, customer purchased, we fix them for a price.
 
On a + note : Look at his feed back and see he is 100% with all thos sales .
That is a good thing I would think ??

YES.... LOOK at who's giving the feedback ???? shops or people that HAVE NO IDEA or ANY WAY of checking anything...

Bolt on a set of junk and it runs and then say "these are awesome"

That's not feedback...

Here's feedback, you buy them, bring them to a shop, we hand you 9 guides, 6 seats, found 4 that were loose, woulda fell out within 100 miles, then give you back all 16 valves, all 16 springs and the machining bill to correct the inconsistent height and open and closed psi, seats , guides and then you say i coulda bought Predators...

That's feedback.

Like i tell my customers, it's your car, not mine


Just because some people on eBay are chislers doesn't mean that everybody on eBay is. It seems like his feedback on the heads he sells is good. .

People don't know what they are getting into, and some things can't be seen until it's being checked and measured.

And there is a issue with the metal from china copies stolen from someone elses design, and like rev.ron has said, unless you weld steel and alum all the time you wouldn't see the issue.

The other issue is that the stuff is stolen property and poorly copied **** in china, like the summit junk being sold from summit that is clearly edel air gaps.... and other edel products...

Sad that people have no morals and then continue to use scum like that and then buy from them, and sadder still is edel lacking spine to pull all their products.

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I got a story to tell....
I was an INDY dealer for many years. I used to bring in LOTS of their stuff.
I got so sick and tired of having to FIX the stuff "as delivered", for Free... trying to look after my Customers.... I finally dropped them !

I still use lots of INDY stuff, the difference being these days... that if I bring it in... it is at the Customers discretion, and if it is not "right"... I get PAID to fix it !

Morale of the Story.... If you are going to go with ProComp stuff, get a warranty, or get it brought in by someone/shop that will stand behind it, which in this case it looks like this Guy is doing.... just verify reputations, etc.


I get that, and i agree with you, i sell you something that i built and it will do or exceed what i said, without making a machine lie.

There are so many shops and companies doing **** thats wrong, setting dyno's to read what it needs to, heads with issues that shouldn't be, and i have plenty of indy and swear by them, but i never had a indy that needed what the nonsense out of pirated pieces need.

But it makes me wonder about **** like that, im not doing what i do in my business because im looking to get rich, i do what i do because i love it , then i have a competitive issue and i need to be the best and won't accept anything less.

I don't know how some people let things go as they are, and i blame that on company size and the people they hire.
I do all my finish work this way if something is wrong it's fixed and not leaving like that, and the owner of Indy should do the same.
If he isn't willing to, then a decision should be made about what it is you are doing and why
.
 
"I won't repair Chinese heads anymore. You can't even weld on them. It's like trying to weld a styrofoam cooler with a pretzel stick"

Good one!! I've been welding since 69 but am fairly new to TIG and man, you gotta have a decent base metal let alone just being clean if you want a good weld not to mention how difficult it is to weld on junk crap. Seems like the Shineese are good at making electronic stuff but man, it's a crap shoot with anything else.
 
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