Opinions wanted

[Deleted member 214]

Figured that thread title would get your attention! I have a 70 Road Runner 440 six barrel. Bought it as a stock resto with non-numbers matching drivetrain - '74 block, 23-spline four speed - and an air grabber hood tho the car was built with a stock hood. Texas car with nice body, paint is nice but getting thin. My first mod was to install a later build deck lid with factory cutouts for the rear wing and I mounted a repop wing kit. Swapped out the bench seat for buckets, swapped the front drums for disks out of a 74 Dart. Took out the 23-spline and installed a Keisler 5-spd kit - it was an early version and required some cutting of the trans tunnel around the shifter hole. Just replaced the factory manifolds with ceramic coated headers - exhaust was already a 3" non-stock system. Non-correct alternator was replaced with a chrome unit, valve covers are aluminum MP, battery is Wal-Mart, shocks are KYB, wheels are off a Mirada.

OK, now is where I need some guidance. I want to keep doing some mods, but some (you know who you are, Mr. "I need a bigger building") say I've already screwed it up so much anything I do will make it worse and I'm losing value. I regret selling off the original bench seat, deck lid, brakes, and driveshaft (moved 1,300 miles, no room) but have kept all the rest of the original parts (clutch linkage, exhaust manifolds, etc.) and would continue to do so.

The hood is already cut out for hood pins underneath. I have an after market ignition system and high output coil sitting in boxes. It is a manual steering car but I have a complete factory power steering setup with a firm feel box ready to go, and if that doesn't fit due to the headers might consider the Unisteer rack and pinion setup. The bolt-on subframe connectors are collecting dust. Not looking to tub it,four-link it, or do other major body mods, just install what I already have.

No-brainer if this was a clone made from a 318 Satellite (get'r done!) or a numbers matching beauty (keep it stock!), but this car is somewhere in between. Keep going with my restification? Quit now and look for correct date code block and 18-spline, bench seat, non-air grabber hood, etc. so I can put it back like Ma Mopar birthed it someday???

Let the battle begin!

 

[64cubed]

Build it the way You like it. Honestly if this economy keeps going in its current path nothing is going to be worth much except food. My .02 which is only worth about .00002 these days:yes:

 

[Meep-Meep]

Typically I say if you (or someone) can change it back without knowing what happened then no big deal - bolt on; bolt off. Obviously your car will have some scars, but that's the way it is I guess. My 69 RR is a nicely optioned car with a good color but no original engine or trans plus missing a lot of other stuff. Oh well. It's getting the parts I have in stock - a 426 wedge, a six pac, an 18 spline trans and a Dana. I'm not selling so it doesn't matter. Build it the way you want but think before you break out the sawzall because after all it's still a 440 six pac car!

 

[CtownChris]

Sell me your car.

 

[696pack]

As others have said. "it is your car" do what you want with it.

If you read the below you will see that you certainly are not alone in this.

You have to remember that you are asking the opinions of members of a site that probably has a lot of purists. The hobby is much larger than most of them choose to admit. There are many people that enjoy, build, or pay big dollars for modified cars. It is the nature of MUCH of the hobby to modify cars to our individual taste. We have been doing it since they were new. Sometimes it was simply wheels, tires, and headers, but people like to set there car apart from the factory look.

My six pack car was originally an auto trans car (still have the original trans w/#s) converted to 4 speed with a 70 pistol grip shifter, has been converted to 69 factory A/C, had a vinyl top, power brakes added, and a color change. These are all things that were done before I bought the car. I have no problems with these changes and especially with the A/C change which is the most invasive change that makes the purists crazy, but I live in AZ. and like to be comfortable.

Since I have bought it I have added factory rear bumper guards, (never know when you will need a push) a six way driver's seat base, and converted the radio to AM/FM. The original engine is long gone, but I have a complete short block from and original six pack RR that went to the crusher that is date code correct for my car in storage. I have a heavily modified 523 strocker engine that looks stock, (think F.A.S.T. racing) two six pack hoods, one original and one race weight, the rear end has been switched to a 4.56:1 ratio, and I plan to eventually put a Passon overdrive trans in it. I am switching the paint back to the original color of Hemi Orange.

When you think about it all changes can be reversed as it is simply time and material just as it was to modifiy it to the non factory state is is currently in. Yes, it is expensive just as it was to get it to the as is condition, but certainly doable. There are plenty of original OEM restos out there for people to buy so these modified cars should not be a concern to the purists. OTOH, there are more than a few other people out there that will appreciate the modifications that are done to MY car IF I ever decide to sell it. I don't think it has much to do with the value either. This is evidenced by the fact that the highest price paid for a 69 six pack Bee was a modified car, (disc brakes) without the original drivetrain, and the car had been resurrected from a totalled, BURNED car.

That is my $.50 on the subject.

 

[69 Runner]

Tell them what color the motor is Greg.....

Yep. I'm responsible. Greg's car belonged to a friend of mine, and I gently nudged Greg towards it. Again, I'm to blame for him getting another decklid for the wing. He's asked me many times what I've thought about what he's done. I personally wouldn't have done them, but I've always told him "as long as YOU'RE happy with it"

And G, despite the fact it took just short of forever to get done, I thought you would have said "thanks"

 

['68-Charger-Guy]

Here's MY opinion,
I'm a sticker for stock ( with the exception of my '56 ), So I say gather up all the stock peices you'll need to put it the way it was in '70. If it was me I would gather the parts over time for a "some day" stone stock resto... untill then enjoy what you have and make the most of it. I wouldn't do much with adding things that involve drilling holes and welding ( more of a pita to correct ). I wouldn't want to make changes that I would kick myself for later. If I wanted something to go balls out in and make into somthing other than stock I would get a Satellite and make a clone. An original six pac anything is worth too much were as base models are Great for : clones, sleepers, and parts. My next project will be a base '68 Charger cloned to be a Hemi R/T with a six speed ( made to look as stock as possible ). When I look at a car to buy I would rather get one that is as close to stock and original as possible and would rather shy away form one that has been modified... even if it was returned back to stock. I don't mind things that have been bolted on as long as they can be romoved and the stock part put back with out haveing to "fix" anything.
Before anyone starts to rag on me, this is just my opinion ( that's what the thred asked for ). Just because changing things around and making mods to sheet metal aren't my cup of tea doesn't make me less happy to see a car like that driving down the road.

 

[MtNemoMopar]

Hey CTownChris!!!!
Your opionin is just ridiculous, and stupid. Why would you even try and get away with that one? C'mon man, smarten up!

 

[MtNemoMopar]

Sell "ME" your car:yes:

 

[thebankerstoy]

Since you're asking for PERSONAL OPINIONS, I'll give you mine. I'm not saying my opinion is right or wrong, it's just the way that I feel about this long debated subject.

I believe that ALL rare cars such as ANY Hemi car, ANY Six Pack car, ANT AAR or TA car, or ANY other low production numbers cars should NOT be modified other than MAYBE wheels and tires, electronic ignition, and other MINOR items that give the car better drivability and will not take away from the cars original appearance any more than absolutely necessary.

If you want to build a race car, a custom car, or any other heavily modified car, why not start with a similer looking car that they made many more copies of, rather than using a rare car? That way, both sides of this debate could be happy.

Richard

 

[Deleted member 214]

CTown Chris is well known to me. He's my brother! I got the brains and the looks in the family, and he got, well...

 

[Deleted member 214]

Thought I would get some interesting and well-though-out responses, and I did - mostly! I am going to continue to gather the parts needed to make it as close to stock as I can - anybody got a summer 69 440 block lying around? 18-spline? bench seat? - and limit my mods to bolt-ons. The Unisteer rack and pinion or factory power steering conversion is a good example - few hours and some hand tools and it's back as it was. The car came with an air grabber hood. I have the switch pieces so I'll probably mount it but look for a spare dash piece for the parts stash and stock RR hood. I'll have to think about the Crane Hi6S ignition as it would mean drilling more holes...

MtNemoMopar and CTownChris - how nice to offer to take this philosphical and ethical burden off my hands, but I'll continue to shoulder this heavy load all by myself!

 

[MtNemoMopar]

Hey! At least we can say we offered.

Good luck with the Runner. As long as YOU like the outcome, the car will be right.

 

[charger70]

If you sell it to me I will make it kind of a "Day 2" car.
I'll make it as factory appearing as possible. Not Original, just factory appearing.
Gonna keep the airgrabber, Its just too cool.
Gonna keep the keisler, Its just too practical.
Probably add a console to complement the buckets.
I'll ditch the 74 block and take my 69 440 standard bore I was keeping for my 69 Bee and stroke it to 496.
Then a set of custom offset 15X10 Road Wheels or maybe Keystone Classics to fit some 295/50/15s or the biggest tire I can fit.

SOLD!!

NO?

damn

 

[Deleted member 214]

If you sell it to me I will make it kind of a "Day 2" car.
I'll make it as factory appearing as possible. Not Original, just factory appearing.
Gonna keep the airgrabber, Its just too cool.
Gonna keep the keisler, Its just too practical.
Probably add a console to complement the buckets.
I'll ditch the 74 block and take my 69 440 standard bore I was keeping for my 69 Bee and stroke it to 496.
Then a set of custom offset 15X10 Road Wheels or maybe Keystone Classics to fit some 295/50/15s or the biggest tire I can fit.

SOLD!!

NO?

damn

I would stash the 69 block and stroke up the 74 so if it blows you still have the correct block. I am not thinking of selling, but a trunkload of cash might get my attention. Stupid money - so much you would be stupid to offer it :santa:and I would be stupid to refuse:grin:!

 

[charger70]

I would stash the 69 block and stroke up the 74 so if it blows you still have the correct block. QUOTE]

Yeah, but if it were mine I'd have to use the 74 block in the Bee.:yes:
so either way there is a stroke in store for that block.;)

 

[torredcuda]

I`m with the guys who like to see the rarer performance models stock or at least only mildy modified with bolt on stuff-no cutting,hacking or prostreeting,if you want to go wild find a Satellite and have fun.I have a `72 318/auto Barracuda that now has a 340/4 spd and plenty of other mild mods for a nice street/strip/driver but I am biulding my original `70 road runner 383/727 FC7 bench seat column shift car 98% stock with a couple day 2 add ons like mild cam,maybe headers,vintage tach,Cragars and possibly an air grabber but the matching numbers engine and most other parts will be correct for the car.In the end it`s your car so do what you want but still respect them for the classic musclecars they are.

 

[68383GTS]

As long as you Do not drill,cut,or weld you really can't hurt it.If start doing any of these you will slow destroy the car.If you want a car you can modifiy I have a 70 Road Runner limelight green car I would trade you.^2,00 mile car Jim

 

[Deleted member 214]

Photos of engine compartment

OK, here are pics of the engine compartment. I may add two bolt holes to mount an aftermarket multi-spark rev limiter ignition, but otherwise nothing new would be other than a bolt-on. I saved the original air cleaner lid and the one in the photo is a fiberglass repop. Bringing it back to bone stock would be repainting the engine orange and swapping out the aftermarket valve covers, master cylinder, exhaust, wiring harness, etc. for the stock pieces squirreled away in my garage. BTW, for you eagle eyed members, yes the engine is sloped to the rear more than stock - I had the tranny mount off to do some work on the Tremec and so the thing was tilted.

 

[beeguy]

My opinion is the more stock the better, I don't mind upgrades as long as they were available options but no JC whittney stuff.

the way I look at it it's much tougher and expensive to make a car original and that's why they're worth more money. to modify a desireable car such as a 70 runner V code is something I just couldn't do. if it were me wouldn't worry about a date coded block that much, non numbers matching is non numbers matching the date code isn't where it's at. the wing and air grabber were options, no problem to me, the 5 speed would have to go though. we all have a different take on this stuff, that's why all cars find a home I guess.