Paint Safety EN143 EN136 EN140 NIOSH EN202089

[Moparfiend]

One would think choosing a respirator for automotive painting would be simple right? Again I believe our National Institute of Standards like our government is failing us. We never did go metric even though they promised me in the later sixties they would. I have double the tool double the work and a fact lives lost due to confusion with SAE and Metric systems in the airline industry and others.

Can someone explain simply what EN rating is required for masks in a 2K organic vapor environment?

The information out there is not concise nor basic for non-professionals….at least thats my opinion.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Ya know?
I believe an EN rating is a different "standard"
Same as SAE or Metric
A good Repspirator, designed for you specific application should suffice.
Ask your local Auto Paint shop or store

 

[Moparfiend]

Ya know?
I believe an EN rating is a different "standard"
Same as SAE or Metric
A good Repspirator, designed for you specific application should suffice.
Ask your local Auto Paint shop or store

I think this serves my point. I don’t trust the level of knowledge of some folks with my health. The last professional automotive paint shop with an experienced guy when asked about how frequently the cartridges should be changes didn’t know. Personally I toss them after each day. The activated carbon saturates. I had to explain this to him. He thought you could use them for months! Then I asked if a particular item had Isocyanates and he didn’t know and was not able to locate the data sheet. My UPOL 2K primer does not list Isocyanate and I have to locate the data sheet as I believe it does.

Just saying that the standards are not simply stated or explained. It should not be this difficult or time consuming to look up what one should use for this application.

 

[gkent]

A friend is a bodyman/painter and his take on masks and filters is "if you can smell the product its time to change the filter(s)". I pretty much use the same philosophy with my 3M welding mask - if I can smell the smoke or fumes its time for a change.

 

[mopar 3 B]

I have not bought a mask for painting from a paint store in years. Find a company that specializes in safety equipment. The requirements should be on the can for the product being used. Take it with you. The materials safety data sheet would be a better option than anything on the container.
Companies are required by law to have trained safety experts or access to it on any materials they use. You have a right to their knowledge or lack of it. If not it's a direct OSHA violation.

 

[dadsbee]

This is my respirator when I need one while using an Isocyanate.... dragging the hose around is a PITA though..

 

[PurpleBeeper]

I know your answer...... none of the EN rated masks are safe for 2k paint. You need a half-face or full-face respirator with organic vapor cartridges (& outer dust filters to make the organic vapor cartridges last longer). Hope this helps!

p.s. there are many different organic vapor cartridges, so if you're unsure about which one to pick, I'm happy to help. As mentioned above, I would need to see the Safety Data Sheet for both components of your paint & the thinner

 

[Moparfiend]

A friend is a bodyman/painter and his take on masks and filters is "if you can smell the product its time to change the filter(s)". I pretty much use the same philosophy with my 3M welding mask - if I can smell the smoke or fumes its time for a change.

Just a heads up Isocyanate is odorless……

 

[Moparfiend]

I know your answer...... none of the EN rated masks are safe for 2k paint. You need a half-face or full-face respirator with organic vapor cartridges (& outer dust filters to make the organic vapor cartridges last longer). Hope this helps!

p.s. there are many different organic vapor cartridges, so if you're unsure about which one to pick, I'm happy to help. As mentioned above, I would need to see the Safety Data Sheet for both components of your paint & the thinner

Thanks my msds (Summit Epoxy Primer) indicates for PPE respirator a 29 cfr 1910.134 not sure what that is but add it to all the above ratings and to my point. I understand that I need it for organic vapor but the markings on the filters from different sources and mfg have a mix of ratings as what I listed above. Some say organic vapors some do not even though they have activated charcoal elements.



ok so after re-reading this a few times mfg is calling out a fresh air respirator. Um don’t have that…. The numbers ate referring to use of that system as detailed by OSHA. My point keeps being made. I realize that not a lot of lay people are spraying cars in a non professional shop but in my opinion the mask markings identification and specifications are not very simple as they should be. If I am confused about the filters I have then my guess is many folks are as well…..

 

[Moparfiend]

I think this is helpful but not sure who is backing this as a standard.

 

[Moparnocar]

I was told years ago that isocyanates can get in your eyes too so you need to use some type of half respirator with the mask. I stopped painting for that reason

 

[zyzzyx]

At my job, we sprayed epoxies and some adhesives. G.E.'s position was we were to
use an MSA full face mask with supplied air. If you got caught cheating, you got written
up! Supplied air is a P.I.T.A., but it's 100% effective. If you spray in an open garage witj
ventilation, and organic filter will work fine but if you are in a booth, supplied air is it!

 

[Moparfiend]

I was told years ago that isocyanates can get in your eyes too so you need to use some type of half respirator with the mask. I stopped painting for that reason

Yeah from what I understand any mucus membranes are extremely vulnerable just like virus to them as well. Part of the issue is PPM filtration and the second stage for gaseous elements. The activated charcoal is for the gas. This is just like the activated charcoal for marine and fish tank filtration. I used to keep marine aquatics and that charcoal was used to remove ammonia nitrates and nitrides. BUT it saturates in hours and thus I believe the mask filters do as well. The Tyvec suit is dam hot as its like wearing a plastic bag.

 

[66 Sat]

I went through the same thing before I painted my engine bay. After doing plenty of research I decided not to spray 2k and went with a single stage without the isocyanates. I have a Sundstrom respirator which works well and the engine bay turned out fine (except it was the wrong color, another story).
From what I learned, spraying 2k is dodgy unless you have a proper set up (booth, fresh air line etc). The guy in the shop was an ex-car sprayer and told me it should be ok as a one off and that he still sprayed cars occasionally in his garage with no mask! I know a few long term industrial painters who are the same - they can't smell the paint anymore so think it's fine. With most water based paints I agree, but not some of the 2 pack epoxies they spray.
I didn't think it was worth the risk - health comes first.

 

[Canadian1968]

I may have missed it but you didn't say how much painting your are doing .

3m 6001 filters are all you need .

Some gloves , and a suit if you want , or just some old clothes

 

[Moparfiend]

I may have missed it but you didn't say how much painting your are doing .

3m 6001 filters are all you need .

Some gloves , and a suit if you want , or just some old clothes

If I am not mistaken 6001 is a size of filter synonymous with 3M type respirators. It does not represent the filters ability to do work.

 

[Moparfiend]

I may have missed it but you didn't say how much painting your are doing .

3m 6001 filters are all you need .

Some gloves , and a suit if you want , or just some old clothes

I paint cars 5 times max per lifetime….Thats me above today while preparing for epoxy in a Tyvek suit with respirator glasses and cap and hood. I didn’t wear the hood lol

 

[Canadian1968]

https://www.3mcanada.ca/3M/en_CA/p/d/v000093371/

6001 They are the Organic vapour filters. You can also get pre-filters as well.
6006 Are the Toxic gas filters...



what you have in your pic is perfect. The only thing that could be better is a fresh air mask, but if your not doing it daily it really is over kill.

At the end of the day its prolong / repeated exposure that is the dangerous part.

 

[Canadian1968]

The isocyanate is actually in the hardner not the base/ primer / epoxy ect.

 

[zyzzyx]

And if you fart while wearing a Tyvek suit, you'll be glad you had that respirator on!