Pricing & recommendations for upgrades

[Richard Cranium]

I've got a potential project car idea floating around in my head & I need some help crunching numbers on some bolt on upgrades as follows....

Wilwood disc brakes for front and are they worth it for the rears?

Recommendations for bolt on suspension upgrades

Fuel injection, worth it or not?

Budget for stock engine & trans rebuild


OK, let it rip.....

 

[JamieZ]

For a street car, front discs/rear drums should be fine. If you are tracking/autocrossing then the rear discs are worth it.

Front suspension consumable replacement (including ball joints, tie rods) will be $450-$500 once you throw in swaybar components

Good shocks are probably $100 a corner....or $300+ a corner if you go for adjustable performance shocks

 

[Bruzilla]

Sounds like the car won't be original, so I would say pass on the Wilwood as you're mainly buying a a name. There are other double-piston caliper systems out there.

One think I'm seeing a lot of recently, and I don't know why, is a lot of Ford F-150 air suspension set ups coming on the market, usually in the $300-$500 range. I know GMG uses air ride all the time, but they run about $2,600+. You would just need to fabricate some mounting plates, or adapt some from a wrecked F-150, and you could have a low-buck air ride system.

I've been wondering about EFI for a while too. I think it would be worth it if you have a mid-power range engine, but the systems that deliver the same performance as say a 750 or 850 carb for a high-performance engine are pretty damned expensive.

I would budget $3k for an engine and trans rebuild, and that's assuming the same shop does both.

 

[benno440]

omg RC steering away from stock to come join the cool kids. you can get all these prices off the interweb pretty easily, efi is good if you wanna spend the money. wilwoods great brakes, baer even better, throw the drums in the bin, rubbish. airide is overrated crap no good for spirited cruising my 2 cents and from knowledge. hit up pro-touring forum for some more info too

 

[Meep-Meep]

I like to keep things simple, effective and cheap. Here is what I would do -

Brakes: I'd go with the 12" cop brakes up front as found on the mid 70's big cars. Rear drums will be fine.

Suspension: Higher rate T bars and perhaps add a larger front sway bar balanced with a rear bar. Note: Installing a rear bar will require drilling holes in sub frame. I would also add the Firm Feel fast ratio steering for $150.00. I drove a friends B body with that setup and I didn't get 50' before I said "I'm getting this for my car."

Fuel injection: Costly, but I believe the drivability improvements will be worth it, even if it's just a throttle body setup. To justify the cost you will actually have to put some serious seat time in the car.

Engine: Approx $3.5K for basic long block with some nice upgrades. Hard seats and bronze guides in factory heads, 112 LSA cam, high strength rockers and 3/8" push rods, cast pistons yielding max of 9.5:1 CR, headers for a more efficient exhaust, balance assembly. This mild combo will do well with 3.23 or 3.55 gears, or even 2.94's for bombing down the freeway.

 

[Propwash]

My 2 cents....I'd upgrade to front disc's at least. IMO, disc rear's are a bit over kill, especially if you run the 11'' police/Taxi/HD rear drums found on a lot of performance line B-Bodies. Front disc will eliminate any forward brake fade, that hot drums tend to get in hefty braking situations. Myself I wouldn't flip the coin on the Wilwood, more like a late model A,B,F,M,J conversion for the front, but they do make good stuff. Price on the Wilwood, grand or two depending on if you go front & rear, and the model line. Late model conversion, $300-$600 depending which route you go.

Suspension....#1 would be subframe connectors ($200-$400). Big difference in rigidness and handling. 2# Beefy sway bar for the front and possibly the rear ($200-$500). Another great handling upgrade. #3 Decent shocks ($300-$1000) #4 New rear springs ($250-$400) #5 Torsion bars ($250-$400). Old worn out weak torsion bars will give you crappy performance. Big bars out there, but remember the bigger you go, the more harsh the ride. Those items make the biggest difference right off the bat in my opinion. Tubular control arms...the jury is still out on them IMO, but you could plan on spending anywhere from $250-$1000 depending on the type/MFG. For around $100 you could buy some LCA stiffening plates, billet tie rod adjusters and Moog offset UCA bushings, that will help gain performance. At the very least plan on changing out the ball joints, tie rods and bushings up front. The difference would probably would be noticeable.

Fuel Injection...like Meep said, costly but drivabilty, reliability and efficiency increases. I plan on doing the same on a spruced up 340 Dart. Fuel injection set up ($2-3K)

Engine, again...I'd agree with Meep. Somewhere in that 3-4K range. Trans, shy of a grand.

Good luck

 

[snakeoil24]

I can't see the added expense for the Wildwood brakes, Drums are perfect in the back I agreed with the experienced guys here. Fuel Injection is really cool, but it's very over priced still. If you figure a good intank pump which is a must 600.00, proper lines supply and return another 250 from inline etc and just throttle body injection your right around 3800.00 tht is a big expense. I want it and would like it but that is real har5d to swallow.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I had no idea that FI was that expensive.

For those who have done it, how difficult are the Vintage Air systems to install?

 

[451Mopar]

I've got a potential project car idea floating around in my head & I need some help crunching numbers on some bolt on upgrades as follows....

Wilwood disc brakes for front and are they worth it for the rears?

Recommendations for bolt on suspension upgrades

Fuel injection, worth it or not?

Budget for stock engine & trans rebuild


OK, let it rip.....

There are alot of brake kits avaliable now, with prices all over the place. Since I have not gotten that far yet I'll see what other suggest.
On my suspension, reproduction R/T rear springs, Mopar 0.96" T-bars (still fairly mild, but I did not want a harsh ride.), Poly bushing, and aftermarket sway bars, and adjustable lower strut rods. My Charger has the old KYB gas shocks which work and have a stiffer ride. My Coronet has the RCD Bilstein shocks which ride nice, but are expensive.
I just installed the Edelbrock XT EFI on my 440. This is an expensive kit, but I liked how low the setup is so I can use my stock hood. I put a 6-pack hood on the car for clearance when I had the Performer RPM and Holley carb. The biggest issue is the fuel tank/EFI fuel pump. My '69 Coronet, the tank is fairly shallow, and the kit came with an external pump. I added a sump to the tank, and mounted the pump under the tank bu attaching brackets to the tank straps. It works good, but looks dumb. A custom stainless fuel tank with internal pump would be the way to go, but is expensive (like over $1,000.) Edelbrock just released a nice remote resivor with built in EFI pump that gets filled from the stock mechanical. That is a nice solution also, but takes up room in the engine compartment and it is still pricy.
If you have the hood clearance, you can use something like the MSD Atomic EFI which is less expensive. It is nice to have full control over the ignition curve and fuel, but retrofitting an engine that never came with it can get expensive.
Way too many options for engine and trans rebuild without more information.

If you don't mind the look, swapping in a Gen III hemi may be more economical.

I picked up a 2008 6.1L Hemi (50K miles) with NAG1 over drive trans and stock computer for $4,000 off E-Bay for another project car.
For the money you get a 425 HP EFI engine with all the accessories (high amp alternator, A/C compressor, P/S pump, ect.) and an overdrive transmission.
Other parts needed are a shifter from a newer hemi car (got a new one for less than $100), Reprogram the computer and modify the wiring harness (still looking at vendors), Not sure on the automatic computer yet, I read someone has a stand alone unit, but it is expensive.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I had no idea that FI was that expensive.

For those who have done it, how difficult are the Vintage Air systems to install?

I have one on order for the '69 Coronet. Let you know as soon as i get it.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

Slow down.... take a seat & think about the project................

[video=youtube;6FLaLZH07J8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FLaLZH07J8[/video]

 

[Richard Cranium]

Been there, done that.

 

[GrabberOrange69]

Brakes - I'm with others who've said front disc, rear drum is the way to go. If for nothing else, no jacking around with a parking brake! I'll buck the trend here and if you're putting lots of $$$ into the paint and the car is not stock, I'd go with the Wilwoods. They look the part.

As for the fuel injection, if you're going with a GenIII HEMI, then by all means, go with the fuel injection. If you're going to put a lot of miles on the car, consider fuel injection. Otherwise, I'd stick with the carbs. Just MHO. Multi carb set-up look cool, and period correct.

I have a '65 Mustang (horrors!) that I dropped a warmed up 5.0 with the factory style fuel injection, and that thing is great. Starts up fine, drives with no fuss, plus it was cheap (18mpg with a small cam and a 3.40 rear gear, no overdrive). Aftermarket fuel injection isn't cheap, plus you still have to buy everything under the throttle body. I always carried an extra fuel pump, factory EFI computer, and the TFI whenever I road triped the '65 - not real expensive with factory stuff, but if you break down on RT66 in Kansas, can you fix the aftermarket stuff yourself? Just food for thought. If $$$ are no object, then have a nut. It's certainly smooth running when set up correctly.

What's the platform?

 

[satman72]

Biggie! What is this project you're thinking about? Details will have a big input as to recommendations as to what you want to do.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Thanks for all the tips everyone. I had no idea that FI was that expensive.

EFI is not cheap but you can look into the Megasquirt kits as a more affordable option. How are you at soldering?

 

[Budnicks]

I've got a potential project car idea floating around in my head & I need some help crunching numbers on some bolt on upgrades as follows....

Wilwood disc brakes for front and are they worth it for the rears?

Recommendations for bolt on suspension upgrades

Fuel injection, worth it or not?

Budget for stock engine & trans rebuild


OK, let it rip.....

It's kind of late tonight, I didn't see this earlier, I'll check back tomorrow & give you some Ideas & ask some questions...

I assume this a Mopar ??, is it a classic Mopar ??
what year, make & model ??,
how far do you want to go, with the bolt-on suspension upgrades ??,
what's the intended usage ??,
what kind of budget ??,
can you adopt me ??, so I can finish mine...LOL...

- - - Updated - - -

Slow down.... take a seat & think about the project................

[video=youtube;6FLaLZH07J8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FLaLZH07J8[/video]

I like that commercial

- - - Updated - - -

FASTMAN EFI Richard Nedball Owner @ www.fastmanefi.com 209-247-6497 is the man to talk to, knows his Mopar's too, he's a member here & DC.com & lives up the mountain from me in Twain Harte...

 

[Dennis H]

I thought you already knew more than any of the rest of us around here?

US Cartool subs. First. Must.
Firm feel stage 2.
Hotchkis tuned Bilsteins on all four.
Classic Auto Air.
Passon 5 speed. Grandchildren will take delivery and show pics to you at old age home. This after they sold all your cool cars.

 

[conv67bdere]

I've been mulling over the 4-disc vs. Front Disc rear Drum Dilemma myself.

The look of the rear disc is really nice, especially if you've got a big enough wheel and open enough spokes to be able to see it, however, the down side of the discs in the rear, is the lack of air flow back there, and the addition of brake dust on your rear wheel - doesn't seem to be very much of an issue if you're using drums.

My decision has not been made yet . . . I'm still working on the rear leaf spring relocation and narrowing the rear axle . . . but I'll be needed to decide soon.

 

[Dennis H]

www.musclecarbrakes.com

 

[Richard Cranium]

Biggie! What is this project you're thinking about? Details will have a big input as to recommendations as to what you want to do.

Nothing specific yet. I've been on the hunt for a 68 R/T with a/c for 2 years & nothing that suits my picky standards has popped up yet. So, I've a nice non-R/T pops up, I may consider it & want to know what things will cost. Thanks for all the input & advice!

 

[benno440]

well you seen my charger, I spent 100k on it but im in Australia and imported all the parts, bear in mind this was just what I spent not what I paid for the car. I reckon you could make a nice pro-tourer/restomod for about 50k in the big ole US