Puzzling Super stock spring issue

[cbodybob]

On the J body Imperial Stock Eliminator car I just bought the car leans real heavy to the passenger side. I finally got a chance to look it over. The guy had just put Mopar Super Stock springs on it. P3690455 driver side & P3690454 passenger side. Both are 3800 pound B body springs. The right side spring has the rear shackle well to far back. 40 degrees & the left side is at 32 degrees & looks about right. I’m not sure what’s wrong here. Unless that right side B body spring just doesn’t work in a J body car. So I’m thinking about buying another left side spring to install on the right side. However there’s another issue. The rear axel is not centered. It’s 5/8 further back on the right side. Don’t see how that can be since both springs have the same 20 inch front segments. Puzzeled is what I am.

 

[RemCharger]

Superstock springs, a body front segment.
Likely the pass side is sacked out. It takes the grunt of the car. If you're replacing it, get another pass side.
If you're looking to fully cure the problem long term, get cal trac springs.

 

[cbodybob]

Superstock springs, a body front segment.
Likely the pass side is sacked out. It takes the grunt of the car. If you're replacing it, get another pass side.
If you're looking to fully cure the problem long term, get cal trac springs.

They’re brand new. Still has the stickers on them. Car has never been down the track with them on it. Not sure Cal trac is legal. They are expensive. This car I’m told was the record holder in P a few years ago

 

[Budnicks]

bent/sagging unibody/chassis (?), raced a lot, totally possible
same amount of air in both slicks ?
are they the same size slicks ?

I know that may seem stupid,
but sometimes it's the simplest ****

You need to scale the car 'all 4 corners'
it may have a huge preload in the front left with no driver in it
making it lean to the right & rear (?)

they don't sit level with any of the S/S springs 'I've ever seen'
seems like it would be leaning towards the drivers' side (IIRC)

wrong spring wrong side, not sure the part #s of either
& the pass side should have 1 more spring (?)

just because the parts are new, doesn't mean they are good/right
especially today, foreign made MoPar parts
(Mexico ? Canada ? China ?)

is the battery in the rear ?
right/Pass side of the trunk ?
is there some ballast on the pass. side too ?
since I don't know the specific rules for that specific class
just spitballing

if it was a record holder, not sure I'd be changing too much on it
if it worked how it is
aesthetics/car leaning aside

need to scale the whole car, all 4 corners 1st
with the driver in the seat
that's what matters, then go from there

 

[RemCharger]

Might want to ponder why is there new springs on it...
and.. what springs WERE on it.
(are the old cal tracs in the PO's garage lol..)

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Take some measurements. I'm wondering if one of those springs was labelled wrong at the factory???

 

[cbodybob]

bent/sagging unibody/chassis (?), raced a lot, totally possible
same amount of air in both slicks ?
are they the same size slicks ?

I know that may seem stupid,
but sometimes it's the simplest ****

You need to scale the car 'all 4 corners'
it may have a huge preload in the front left with no driver in it
making it lean to the right & rear (?)

they don't sit level with any of the S/S springs 'I've ever seen'
seems like it would be leaning towards the drivers' side (IIRC)

wrong spring wrong side, not sure the part #s of either
& the pass side should have 1 more spring (?)

just because the parts are new, doesn't mean they are good/right
especially today, foreign made MoPar parts
(Mexico ? Canada ? China ?)

is the battery in the rear ?
right/Pass side of the trunk ?
is there some ballast on the pass. side too ?
since I don't know the specific rules for that specific class
just spitballing

if it was a record holder, not sure I'd be changing too much on it
if it worked how it is
aesthetics/car leaning aside

need to scale the whole car, all 4 corners 1st
with the driver in the seat
that's what matters, then go from there

Ok yes I checked all that. Car doesn’t look bent. Don’t visibly see anything off other than the right rear spring is laid back.
Yes he put brand new size matching slicks on the rear. Goodyears & he also put brand new size matching Goodyear front runners on it. Air psi is verified & correct to how he told me he ran the car
According to the part numbers the springs are on the correct side & the pass side has two more leafs
I agree it could be a defective spring. Driver side looks ok.
Battery is under hood. 110 pounds of ballast in the trunk which I’ve already removed & that helped I little.
Don’t plan to change nothing
He just installed the SS springs because he said the Stock springs had begun to sag & he cut a fairly new slick on launch. He showed mr the slick & it was indeed fairly new & a slice through the sidewall. Still held air but slow leak so that’s how the SS springs came into the picture. Yes I plan to scale The Whole car but I kinda want to get this fixed first. Front torsion bars look ok. Ride height looks good. I see no issues up front.

 

[cbodybob]

Might want to ponder why is there new springs on it...
and.. what springs WERE on it.
(are the old cal tracs in the PO's garage lol..)

Yes I asked him about that & I listed that in Budnicks reply. And I looked under the car before I bought it & told him it was jacked up mess & he shouldn’t have put them on it. I’m simply trying to make it work now that it’s mine.

 

[cbodybob]

Take some measurements. I'm wondering if one of those springs was labelled wrong at the factory???

I did that this evening & I’m finding an issue there. 1/2 inch off but it’s hard to accurate lying under a car on Jack stands but it sure looks like that right side spring is off at the center pin.

 

[rumblefish360]

Check the top side of the rear shocks and look for a bent mounting area.

 

[cbodybob]

Ok guys I have no reason at all to think the guy sold me a bent up car. A good friend of mine & fellow racer recomended me to buy the car & put us in contact with each other. He knows the guy well. Charles is a very well respected racer in the NHRA Stock class. He also has a second car his son drives that he’s won two Wally’s with & a bitchin Comp E car. His stuff ain’t junk. When I announced on the Stock Eliminator group I had purchased the car I got nearly 300 thumbs up. Those guys mostly racers, photographers, track operators & crew people all said it was a good car & id do well in it if I can drive. Not a single one said anything negative about the car or Charles. Several sent me pics they took of it. Several jokingly said they enjoyed putting it on the trailer. Charles ain’t the best driver in the world. He told me that himself. He said he just enjoys being a part of it. So with that said I’m simply trying to get these damn springs to work so I can hit a few test & tunes before the tracks close. I got all next year to sort out things. Just want to make a few passes in my new car that’s all. I’ve been racing 3 decades. I’m use to working on em. I’ll figure it out. Just wanted to see if anyone out there had run into this before.

 

[Dave6T4]

Look at the passenger side "454" spring and you will notice that the second spring leaf stops well short of the rear spring shackle when compared to the driver side " 455" spring, where the second leaf extends almost to the shackle under the main leaf. Over time, this lack of support of the passenger side main leaf causes it bend down and sag. I have had this happen on my B-bodies with these springs, and remedied it by using the "455" spring on both sides.
As to the seeming difference in tire to fender clearance; have the 1/4 panels ever been replaced, possibly improperly? With front wheels pointed straight ahead, measure your wheelbase from the centre of your front hub to the centre of your rear axle on both sides of your car. Any difference would have to be corrected to make your car track straight.

 

[440 4 speed]

Bought MP super stock springs to replace the sagged ones about 16 years ago. Put them on and the car dropped more than an inch more. Complained to the dealer. Found out that if there is a P before the part number no warranty. Springs made in Mexico.
Dodge City asked me to come and see the District rep twice , no show.
Third appointment, the rep called me said bring your car. Took time off work, I was when she called the parts manager and said she was behind schedule.
Manger asked me to wait in his office, gone about 15 minutes and came back with a total refund cheque and said do whatever you want with the springs. Very good dealership.
Ended up having complete new springs made. Couldn’t be happier.
I know some 66-7 Charger guys that just added a leaf and we’re happy.
Most of these were stock combinations.

 

[RemCharger]

I wouldn't assume the car is shitty or you or the previous owner...
But the springs are.
Especially with a car that heavy and that much torque multiplication.
Had those on my Charger and they twisted up in no time.
If you could put a nice heavy full leaf under the main leaf, might work as a band aid.
As far as the rear shackle angle- if the pass side is flattened out, of course it will angle back more than the other side.
On the centering pin.. guess you would have to loosen up the u bolts and take a look. Is the hole on the perch bigger than the pin?
What's the rear-end out of.

 

[cbodybob]

Look at the passenger side "454" spring and you will notice that the second spring leaf stops well short of the rear spring shackle when compared to the driver side " 455" spring, where the second leaf extends almost to the shackle under the main leaf. Over time, this lack of support of the passenger side main leaf causes it bend down and sag. I have had this happen on my B-bodies with these springs, and remedied it by using the "455" spring on both sides.
As to the seeming difference in tire to fender clearance; have the 1/4 panels ever been replaced, possibly improperly? With front wheels pointed straight ahead, measure your wheelbase from the centre of your front hub to the centre of your rear axle on both sides of your car. Any difference would have to be corrected to make your car track straight.

I agree with using the two left side springs. Done that before & it works. These springs are new. Never been down track so they’re not worn out. In fact they still had the plastic on them until yesterday. I have no ideas if the quarters where replaced. The car has been a Stock Eliminator car since 1985. I’ve found the original owner who built the car. Read my post above.

 

[cbodybob]

I wouldn't assume the car is shitty or you or the previous owner...
But the springs are.
Especially with a car that heavy and that much torque multiplication.
Had those on my Charger and they twisted up in no time.
If you could put a nice heavy full leaf under the main leaf, might work as a band aid.
As far as the rear shackle angle- if the pass side is flattened out, of course it will angle back more than the other side.
On the centering pin.. guess you would have to loosen up the u bolts and take a look. Is the hole on the perch bigger than the pin?
What's the rear-end out of.

I took it all apart over the weekend & didn’t see anything wrong. I’m convinced I’ve got a bad spring. Just one of those things.

 

[RemCharger]

I took it all apart over the weekend & didn’t see anything wrong. I’m convinced I’ve got a bad spring. Just one of those things.

I agree, but wouldn't expect any better from a different one.
What's that called again when you do the same thing and expect a different result?

 

[Outsider]

If you don't find anything with the spring or frame, check your rear housing for overall bend. Back in the day after upgrading my 8 3/4" housing with as much aftermarket stuff I could buy, I still had problems.

Slicks, 3600lbs and 7k launches took their toll, and the last 8 3/4 housing I pulled out was bent over half a foot out of shape when pulled. Ended up changing to a Dana with thick wall tubes.

 

[Lefty71]

Since it was just apart and you didn't personally do the work, I would double check the front spring hangers and make sure they are identical....there are many possibilities there and could easily explain that 5/8 inch difference.

 

[dvw]

If the wheelbase is off and the chassis measures ok, which it probably does. 3 items to check between the two sides. #1; the front spring hangers are a different dimension from the mounting surface to the mounting hole. #2 the spring to centering pin is a different dimension to the front eye. #3; the axle isn't mounted correctly on the centering pins.
Doug