question for the headlight experts

[Belchfire 5000]

Was cleaning the headlights the other day and used the override switch to keep them opened while I worked. Finished up and the headlights won't close. Took the override switch out and cleaned the contacts and no change. The FSM says to check continuity to ground on it to make sure it works but have no idea how to do that with my limited electrical knowledge. It's a 2 post switch and I do have a meter to do the test with a little help from the members. It's a 66 and I've changed out the relays a couple of years ago.
Thanks in advance,
Evan

 

[Don Frelier]

The override switch disables the closed limit switches from powering the close relay, on the negative side of the coil.
With the override switch on and with the headlight switch off:
A. 1 terminal should show continuity (almost 0 resistance to ground) this terminal and wire goes to the close limit switches.
B. the other terminal should show 12Volts (as you should have power to the coil and no ground or DC- to pull in the closing relay)
If you don't have power then the circuit breaker in the left kickpanel has a problem.

Turning the override off switch should energize the closing relay.
If it doesn't then either both of the closed position limit switches are stuck/broken or the override switch is bad.

A temporary jumper from the 12 Volt terminal, or either terminal iof the override switch if it's off should energize the closing relay and the headlights will then start to close.
If this works then the closed limit switches are not functioning correctly.

Unfortunately if you are not versed in schematics this one is fairly difficult.
Sorry for the blurry schematic.

 

[Belchfire 5000]

Don,
Thanks so much for the reply. I have that print so I can follow it, just didn't know how to check for continuity. Seems like there is always something wrong with these lights. Might have to try the conversion one of these days.
Thanks again,
Evan

 

[Don Frelier]

Another easy thing to check is the plug to the motors.
Unplug and clean up the terminals in there.

 

[Speedbird]

Maybe check it like this using those print.
(Disclaimer, I have not had my coffee yet)
Head light switch has to be "on" to supply 12 volts to red wire coming out of the closing relay.
Check.
1. Then put a test light at "2" on closing relay. If you have 12 volts there it means your override switch is not giving the 12 volts a ground to activate the closing relay like it should be to close the headlights.
Switch problem?
2. If you didn't have 12 volts at "2" move the override switch to hold open position. See if the 12 volts appears.
3. If it disappears when the hold open switch is in the hold open position, lastly check "3" when the switch is NOT in the hold open position to see if the closing relay is supplying 12 volts to the "red/tracer" which should supply power to close the motors.
(Or you could check this last thing first which might be simpler.)
I'm suggesting this because it's not as likely that both the lower limit switches are bad. That would also prevent the both motors from closing.

 

[Don Frelier]

Head light switch has to be "on" to supply 12 volts to red wire coming out of the closing relay.

There are 2 red wires going to the closing relay.
Terminal 1 is motor power right from the breaker to the the closing relay common this should have 12 volts all the time. (heavy 10 gauge I think)
Terminal 4 is the Coil wire to the closing relay and it's powered when light switch is OFF. (Off = close the headlight doors, smaller gauge wire)

 

[Belchfire 5000]

Well, weird things are going on.... I held the closing relay to pull the plug out to start testing and I heard the lights close. Let go and turned the lights on and they opened but didn't close when I turned them off. Grabbed the relay again and they closed so switched it out with a new one and everything is working. Must have been a defective relay.
Anyway, thanks for the help guys. And Speedbird, if you ever decide to make a kit for your conversion, please, please, please put me on the top of the list to buy one. May try it on my own but would be glad to buy the first one from you.

 

[Speedbird]

Headlight switch.
That should be "off".
See if this looks right.
I can't tell at the control relay.
Red to 2 is the control power and yellow to 3 is the operating power.
What I was telling him was that IF 2 has power with a test light when trying to close, it means his switch might not be supplying a ground.
And the easy thing might be just to check 3."
If 3 doesn't have power look "up stream" on the problem.

 

[Don Frelier]

It's almost embarrasing but I'm an electrcial controls engineer and I never spent the time to fix my own revolving lights (they used to work 30 years ago).
Probably 20 years ago I wired the motors directly to a 3 position toggle switch.
I'm so used to it now it's just "the way the car is".
Someday I'll get back to it and probably work on controlling them individualy.
I kind of prefer working on performance and mechanical stuff at home.

 

[Speedbird]

Well, weird things are going on.... I held the closing relay to pull the plug out to start testing and I heard the lights close. Let go and turned the lights on and they opened but didn't close when I turned them off. Grabbed the relay again and they closed so switched it out with a new one and everything is working. Must have been a defective relay.
Anyway, thanks for the help guys. And Speedbird, if you ever decide to make a kit for your conversion, please, please, please put me on the top of the list to buy one. May try it on my own but would be glad to buy the first one from you.

I've had some people contact me to email them readable prints.
While it's effective in making the systems separate and straight forward ( if you rip out everything and just follow the prints) it's more than 90 percent of people would want to do.
It's only really good if someone was planning on keeping the car and didn't care too much about originality there.
But it also does give the modern Bosch relays.
You probably know that someone has adapter harnesses to use them in the existing system if you wanted to just upgrade to the Bosch since yours may be defective.

 

[RemCharger]

It's almost embarrasing but I'm an electrcial controls engineer and I never spent the time to fix my own revolving lights (they used to work 30 years ago).
Probably 20 years ago I wired the motors directly to a 3 position toggle switch.
I'm so used to it now it's just "the way the car is".
Someday I'll get back to it and probably work on controlling them individualy.
I kind of prefer working on performance and mechanical stuff at home.
View attachment 1256383

About the same story here. Had everything working about 20 yrs ago and a motor was stuttering so I pulled the plugs.

The last one I worked on, came to the conclusion that the motors burn out because they don't shut power down until the last motor is closed.

 

[Don Frelier]

When they get old and out of synch the original design is badly flawed.
I'd like to put a little programmable controller in there...

 

[RemCharger]

I was thinking circuit breakers, or more relays

 

[Cranky]

It's almost embarrasing but I'm an electrcial controls engineer and I never spent the time to fix my own revolving lights (they used to work 30 years ago).
Probably 20 years ago I wired the motors directly to a 3 position toggle switch.
I'm so used to it now it's just "the way the car is".
Someday I'll get back to it and probably work on controlling them individualy.
I kind of prefer working on performance and mechanical stuff at home.
View attachment 1256383

Kinda funny that my high score on my military 'tests' was in electronics but I'm shade blind. Old faded wiring really gives me a fit so....I try to stick with the basic stuff and don't dig in too far. And I with you in that I like working on mechanical stuff more. Just glad the majority of my vehicles have been gremlin free in the electrical system.