Shot adjusters and pushrods

[Mopar Hunter]

 

[Budnicks]

That looks like soft metal, transferring metal, probably getting really hot

or lack of oil at the tips, too much adjuster sticking out

I've had broken adjusters before, with "allegedly" too much thread sticking out
as they claimed, but it turned out
(supposed to be only like 2-3 total threads "max" sticking out regardless of rocker style,
it will sacrifice oil not get enough & starve the pushrod tips/cup & ball)
with the proper length push rods I double & triple checked it
& rocker tips centered over the valve all the way thru the lift cycles
& only 3 threads max sticking out on any rockers
with 'ductile iron' Crane adj. (MP) rockers like 'back in 2005',
& come to find out it had 'the right correct length pushrods'
Smith Bros. 3/8" push rods too

I found out they (Crane/MoPar Peformance, I got from Mancini Racing)
had a bad batch of adjusters, delivered to Crane (& Isky),
that was going around at that time
(I unfortunately was one of them unlucky people)
I order some news ones/ball tip fine thread adjusters & locks,
that were same thread & style from a different supplier
('the screw factory', In Concord Ca. not sure they are still in buss. today)
no issues after...

I've had 1.6:1 Super Gold Cranes on my current car 383/479cid since 2007
same suppliers, 18 years & still going...
I've had several sets of Harland Sharps too, have some on my 99 Dakota
for 25+ years now too
never an issue

Had a similar deal with a BBC too, oil holes in rockers weren't drilled properly
not getting enough oil at the push rod tip, changed restrictors 1st in the block
still doing it, had to take off every rocker & inspect each on & found
smaller oil holes in a few, on the ones that galled up bad...

seen it on motors where the, people didn't prime it properly
before initial fire up or it sat for a log time, dried out
(you can wipe out an adjuster tip in seconds)
or that people didn't put break-in lube/grease on them
to fire it up the 1st time, can eat pushrod or adjuster like crazy

You can also could have/or order the pushrods ends drilled,
with a lil' hole & help supply more oil
to the cups/ball adjuster, done that before on several engines
with over 0.800" gross valve lift
it helped, didn't have any oil starvation issues at the tips after that,
they were Harlen Sharps full rollers too

 

[threewood]

Don’t mind the discoloration of the cup that was from 5years ago when we had them made

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All the discoloration from the cup into the pushrod was from when they were made?? Those look to have seen some serious heat.

 

[evilmopar]

All the discoloration from the cup into the pushrod was from when they were made?? Those look to have seen some serious heat.

It´s from the pushrod to the cup, from assembly, had a too tight fit when i made the pushrods so i had to heat the pushrod and then it got heat transfered from the pushrod to the cup. They´ve been working fine with ductile iron rockers for 5 years. BUT with a solid lifter cam and softer springs. New springs are a bit stiffer... about 30%.

 

[Budnicks]

It´s from the pushrod to the cup, from assembly, had a too tight fit when i made the pushrods so i had to heat the pushrod and then it got heat transfered from the pushrod to the cup. They´ve been working fine with ductile iron rockers for 5 years. BUT with a solid lifter cam and softer springs. New springs are a bit stiffer... about 30%.

either way not good

Heating it (the cup tips, balls of the adusters inside) annealed the metals
'softened it', especially if you got them red hot
or near white hot (orangish looking)
& if they weren't quenched in high carbon oil after while still hot,
it ruins the temper/hardness or heat treatment
the hardness of the steel/metals, were compromised

 

[evilmopar]

I have found the cause! My camshaft is too far forward in the block so oil to the heads are restricted and it ruined the bronze gear. I will NEVER buy a Cloyes timing set again! It pulls the cam to far forward. I have a few other timing sets on the shelf i’ll double check cam alignment.

 

[stage3]

lack of zinc in the oil will burn parts up also,,,i found out the hard way on that 1.

 

[PRHeads]

I have found the cause! My camshaft is too far forward in the block so oil to the heads are restricted and it ruined the bronze gear. I will NEVER buy a Cloyes timing set again! It pulls the cam to far forward. I have a few other timing sets on the shelf i’ll double check cam alignment.

I’m not saying that isn’t the problem, but in post 5 you said:

Just changed to Harland Sharp rollers and this heppened. Yes i pre lubed the engine while it was on engine stand without covers to verify there was oil to the rockers on both sides.

Do you not have a thrust button on the front of the cam to keep it from walking forward?

 

[evilmopar]

I’m not saying that isn’t the problem, but in post 5 you said:


Do you not have a thrust button on the front of the cam to keep it from walking forward?

yes it’s getting oil to the heads but not enough to spray the adjusters. Yeaterday i was priming the engine again and i saw there was alot of oil coming from the cam where the passages are to the head. Then i investigated further and saw the the cam was to far out. And yes i have a cam button, but i guess it was my misstake not checking that the rollers where in the center of the lobe.

I took the timing gear off and put a comp cams magnum double roller in and the cam went 0.08 further in to the block compared to the Cloyes timing gear and now the lifter alignes with the lobes.

1st pic is with cloyes and second with comp

 

[PRHeads]

Very strange.

Do you see more oil coming out of the rockers when priming since changing the timing set?

I’m curious about what you used for a button.
Some sit on the front of the gear, some fit in the hole but are stepped, and the step sits on the gear, others fit in the hole and are bottomed on the cam itself.

 

[1KoolBee]

Have you checked for retainer to guide or valve to piston interference?

 

[evilmopar]

Think i found the problem.... The brand new camshaft isn´t round on journal 2 and 4 and bearing 2 and 4 is gone... So i don´t get oil to the rockers while the camshaft is spinning, but when i have it stationary i will get oil to the heads (turned so oil passages are open to one of the heads) You could feel the shatter marks with your hand and clearly see it. The camera won´t give you the perfect image sadly. These are just standard cambearings. Maybe the aren´t good enough for my springs 625lbs open pressure. I ordered a set of King HP bearings to be sure... And ofcourse polished the camshaft and had it checked for straighness

 

[evilmopar]

Very strange.

Do you see more oil coming out of the rockers when priming since changing the timing set?

I’m curious about what you used for a button.
Some sit on the front of the gear, some fit in the hole but are stepped, and the step sits on the gear, others fit in the hole and are bottomed on the cam itself.

Yes i did. alot more. But no oil or very little while engine was running only when i primed with a shaft and drill. Could have it running without valvecovers and didn´t get much oil on the floor

 

[evilmopar]

lack of zinc in the oil will burn parts up also,,,i found out the hard way on that 1.

I only run AMSoil Z-rod 10W-30 oil. And always break-in oil first.

 

[Geoff 2]

Most unlikely that the cam journals are out of round. What brand of cam brg? If you have another cam, compare the journal sizes.

 

[PRHeads]

These are just standard cambearings. Maybe the aren’t good enough for my springs 625lbs open pressure.

I always use performance cam bearings with a roller cam.

With HS rockers, I wouldn’t expect as much of an oil “mess” as with some other rockers, since the only hole in the rocker is at the pushrod(and whatever leaks past the bearings).

 

[1KoolBee]

Think i found the problem.... The brand new camshaft isn´t round on journal 2 and 4 and bearing 2 and 4 is gone... So i don´t get oil to the rockers while the camshaft is spinning, but when i have it stationary i will get oil to the heads (turned so oil passages are open to one of the heads) You could feel the shatter marks with your hand and clearly see it. The camera won´t give you the perfect image sadly. These are just standard cambearings. Maybe the aren´t good enough for my springs 625lbs open pressure. I ordered a set of King HP bearings to be sure... And ofcourse polished the camshaft and had it checked for straighness

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Make sure cam bearing holes line up with oil passages in block . They often don’t line up real well.

 

[RemCharger]

My buddy just took this 528 MP hemi apart.. the oiling problem was easily identifiable

 

[evilmopar]

Most unlikely that the cam journals are out of round. What brand of cam brg? If you have another cam, compare the journal sizes.

They where in spec but not round, more square like feeling when you felt it with your hand. Cambearings are or where Clevite stock bearings

My buddy just took this 528 MP hemi apart.. the oiling problem was easily identifiable View attachment 1871269View attachment 1871270

Yup that is common. I took a long brill bit and "adjusted" the holes when i built the engine. Now i´ll try to put new bearings in with engine in the car.... Will see how that goes .

I always use performance cam bearings with a roller cam.

With HS rockers, I wouldn’t expect as much of an oil “mess” as with some other rockers, since the only hole in the rocker is at the pushrod(and whatever leaks past the bearings).

I´m all new to rollercams never touched them before.. so i´m learning.. the expensive way. i ordered two sets of king HP cam bearings, So i have a set to fu** up. But i hope not, we have done this procedure before with engine in the car once before (not on my car tho)

 

[icetech]

My buddy just took this 528 MP hemi apart.. the oiling problem was easily identifiable View attachment 1871269View attachment 1871270

I had that happen on a block, i had a machine shop do the bearings and the cam wouldn't go in.. i inspect it and the bearings don't line up with the oiling holes, the machinist told me i spun the cam bearings putting the cam in... really?