Started new engine!

[mpro69rr]

And it didn't go well! 69 RR 383 4 speed, strong cam.

- Set timing at TDC and 0 degrees, turned the crank Counter Clockwise to give it 18 degrees BTDC. Turned the distributor to line it back up to cylinder #1.
- Everything is new, pertronix III dist, new firecore wires, new engine, 60 ohm coil, new engine and dash wiring. New demon 750 carb (supposed to b a great carb to run out of the box) Did the MAD upgrade.
- it started and backfired out the carb, then ran real rough like it wasn't running on all cylinders. Everything was shaking. I tried starting again and it didn't start.
- We checked to see if it was getting gas and it was, started again holding gas pedal all the way to the floor and it started, then it did the same thing, let off the pedal and it died.
- Looked at the engine and my eyes started burning, running rich? I did try starting fluid so that could be it, not sure.
- While it was running real rough I was getting 40 psi of oil pressure.

What should I check first? Timing? I thought I set it up correct. For the time it ran, the engine did get real hot. Any help would be appreciated, first time starting a new mopar engine.

Thanks!
-Mark

 

[Nate S]

Timing is usually the first thing wrong, at least when I’ve done this. Way I do it now is set the engine to 15 degrees before TDC then retard the distributor. Pull the #1 plug wire and put a spare plug in it. Prop it somewhere it’ll spark and you can see it. Then advance the distributor until you see a spark. Lock it down right there. Put the wire back on and re-start. Gets the timing quite close.

 

[JLM-90]

First I'd say before anything is checking Oil pressure. May have been the how rough it was but 40 is on the low side for them as far as I know.

Get a hex rod and if positions aren't marked on the balancer spin the engine over by hand a little at a time till oil starts coming out of sides rockers. Keep drill on low speed and spin and see what the pressure is like. Should be around 50-65psi on a standard pressure HV pump even on the drill. If it's 40 or lower that needs to be addressed before starting the engine again. If it's good keep turning the engine over till the other side oils to same, again 40 or lower is bad in my knowledge. (I'd recommend putting small paint marks on the balancer as you find the two point if you ever need to prime the engine again later.) That's what I did for my 440 at least. Make 100% it's oiling properly, better to be safe then sorry.

Then for timing get a compression tester on #1 and spin it by hand till the needle starts bouncing, spin till piston is at the top and check to see where the distributor is, make sure it's not 180 off or something. I thought for sure I had it set right one mine only to have it do the same thing as yours did only to find mine ended up 180 off. I reset mine at zero and it started right up on regular gas. Though my build was a 9.5 to 1 440 with the sum-6401 cam though.

Hope everything is all safe and good with your engine and it's just timing.

 

[mpro69rr]

First I'd say before anything is checking Oil pressure. May have been the how rough it was but 40 is on the low side for them as far as I know.

Get a hex rod and if positions aren't marked on the balancer spin the engine over by hand a little at a time till oil starts coming out of sides rockers. Keep drill on low speed and spin and see what the pressure is like. Should be around 50-65psi on a standard pressure HV pump even on the drill. If it's 40 or lower that needs to be addressed before starting the engine again. If it's good keep turning the engine over till the other side oils to same, again 40 or lower is bad in my knowledge. (I'd recommend putting small paint marks on the balancer as you find the two point if you ever need to prime the engine again later.) That's what I did for my 440 at least. Make 100% it's oiling properly, better to be safe then sorry.

Then for timing get a compression tester on #1 and spin it by hand till the needle starts bouncing, spin till piston is at the top and check to see where the distributor is, make sure it's not 180 off or something. I thought for sure I had it set right one mine only to have it do the same thing as yours did only to find mine ended up 180 off. I reset mine at zero and it started right up on regular gas. Though my build was a 9.5 to 1 440 with the sum-6401 cam though.

Hope everything is all safe and good with your engine and it's just timing.

Thanks for the info. I thought about it being a 180 degrees off, but how do you tell and what do you do to correct it? The rotor was pointing to #1 spark plug wire so it shouldn't be 180 degrees off correct?

 

[multimopes]

In which direction did you install the spark plug wires in the distributor, clockwise or counter clockwise?? The reason I ask is I had an old 66 Charger way back when with a 318 that was wired backwards and it ran pretty good and even passed emissions. I sold it to a guy that never did a tune up before so I helped him and we discovered the problem in the process. After we finished, the engine ran so smooth you could barely sense it was running at all.

 

[mpro69rr]

In which direction did you install the spark plug wires in the distributor, clockwise or counter clockwise?? The reason I ask is I had an old 66 Charger way back when with a 318 that was wired backwards and it ran pretty good and even passed emissions. I sold it to a guy that never did a tune up before so I helped him and we discovered the problem in the process. After we finished, the engine ran so smooth you could barely sense it was running at all.

I did one side and a friend did the other. We were done we checked all wires to make sure they were correct. I got custom firecore wires and they come all marked with each cylinder.

 

[multimopes]

Remember on a big block Mopar the firing order should be counter clockwise! I should have said that in my above post.

 

[MoparLeo]

The oil pump drive gear and distributor slot must be installed properly to set timing. Overheating is a sign of (a) intake leak (b) lean carb setting (c) over advanced timing, or a combination of any of these.
Attached is the Factory Service Manual pages detailing proper distributor installation.

 

[69a100]

And it didn't go well! 69 RR 383 4 speed, strong cam.

- Set timing at TDC and 0 degrees, turned the crank Counter Clockwise to give it 18 degrees BTDC. Turned the distributor to line it back up to cylinder #1.
- it started and backfired out the carb, then ran real rough like it wasn't running on all cylinders. Everything was shaking. I tried starting again and it didn't start.
- While it was running real rough I was getting 40 psi of oil pressure.

What should I check first? Timing? I thought I set it up correct. For the time it ran, the engine did get real hot. Any help would be appreciated, first time starting a new mopar engine.

Thanks!
-Mark

I'd check, re-check, then triple check that the spark plug wires are all on tight and in correct firing order.
I'd set your timing back to about 12-15 for starters, you can always tweak it later.
I can't comment on oil pressure, but seems a safe number to me even on a new build?
New motor & tight clearances creates some extra friction could be why.
It could be overly rich too, I'm not there to confirm that!
Follow up run with a thermo check would be safe. Good Luck

 

[mpro69rr]

The oil pump drive gear and distributor slot must be installed properly to set timing. Overheating is a sign of (a) intake leak (b) lean carb setting (c) over advanced timing, or a combination of any of these.
Attached is the Factory Service Manual pages detailing proper distributor installation.

Thank you, I do have the FSM and read it. Seems like it could be many things. Crap!

 

[JLM-90]

Get a compression tester out and remove #1 plug and screw the tester in. Spin the engine over by hand till the needle bounces. From there take the tester out get a straw or something long in a turn the engine till it's a tdc. You should also be able to see the piston going up via the sparkplug hole too. Then just check the distributor to make sure it's pointed at where ever #1 is on your cap. Reset it near spot on then as you're spinning the engine over get a timing light on it to get it set to zero. It'll start for sure then.

Also anther side note, that may need to change if you're got it advanced or retarded at the timing chain. Mine was zero as well.

 

[mpro69rr]

I'd check, re-check, then triple check that the spark plug wires are all on tight and in correct firing order.
I'd set your timing back to about 12-15 for starters, you can always tweak it later.
I can't comment on oil pressure, but seems a safe number to me even on a new build?
New motor & tight clearances creates some extra friction could be why.
It could be overly rich too, I'm not there to confirm that!
Follow up run with a thermo check would be safe. Good Luck

I'm checking the wires now.

 

[hunt2elk]

I'm checking the wires now.

Pay particular attention to 5 and 7, easy to get them swapped.

 

[69a100]

Seems like it could be many things. Crap!

As long as it doesn't cost anything except your time, I don't see a problem with that! Good Luck

 

[mpro69rr]

I'd check, re-check, then triple check that the spark plug wires are all on tight and in correct firing order.
I'd set your timing back to about 12-15 for starters, you can always tweak it later.
I can't comment on oil pressure, but seems a safe number to me even on a new build?
New motor & tight clearances creates some extra friction could be why.
It could be overly rich too, I'm not there to confirm that!
Follow up run with a thermo check would be safe. Good Luck

OK, I checked all the wires and re-seated them, started it up and it sounded like it was running on all 8. I advanced the dist a little and started it and brought up the rpm's, it ran ok then backfired out the carb and died. Anyone's thoughts? I think I'm getting a little somewhere.

 

[Zeppelin264]

Sounds like its still retarded. I bet the oil pump drive gear is not in the right slot. I'd start over with engine at TDC on compression stroke on #1(both valves closed). Then do your 15 to 20 degree advance and try again.

The 1st time I fired up a BB Mopar I was off by about half a distributor post and the car ran but not very good, it ended up being the dist oil pump slotted incorrectly.

 

[69a100]

Do you have adjustable rockers? If so, they may be to tight. Or what's said above could be it too. Good Luck

 

[mpro69rr]

Sounds like its still retarded. I bet the oil pump drive gear is not in the right slot. I'd start over with engine at TDC on compression stroke on #1(both valves closed). Then do your 15 to 20 degree advance and try again.

The 1st time I fired up a BB Mopar I was off by about half a distributor post and the car ran but not very good, it ended up being the dist oil pump slotted incorrectly.

What do you mean the oil pump gear is not in the right slot? I aligned it the best I could, it wasn't exactly parallel with the cam but close. I though it didn't matter where you put the gear as long as you have the distributor pointed to #1 spark plug (that's what I have been reading)?

 

[Wile E]

Sounds like a possible problem with the ignition unit?? I am not up on the aftermarket stuff but that motor should be running according to all I am hearing. Might be failing under loads?? Just my thoughts. I know the old big blocks will usually run with sloppy chains and improper timing. That is with the stock coils setup and points or stock electronic. They never seem to picky to me.

 

[BSB67]

Until you put a timing light on it while it's running, you're guessing at the timing.