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Structural Panel Adhesive

scotts74birds

scotts74birds

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I'd like to get the opinions of those of you who have worked with some of the new panel adhesives out there for patches and panel replacement. I work at SHAP [Sterling Hts Assembley Plant] and we use this on our cars [Sebring/Convert./ and Avenger]. At the factory we have done "peel tests" and found the metal would tear before the adhesive failed. Have any of you used an aftermarket product, and how did it work for you?
 
At my friends shop they use the 3m two part epoxy for all types work on late model stuff. I also seen it used on vintage mopars. I have seen it used to hang bed sides on pickups without issues. However there is a lot of prefitting & prep work before they are hung. Also on several spots on the panel holes are punched (before Gluing) for welding after the panel is glued and clamped. He clamps the replacement part very tightly at about 3 or 4 inch spaces. The glued panel usually sit for 24 hours before unclamping and final welding. The excess glue is buzzed off with a 3" air grinder. Very good results can be had using this material. Good luck!
 
Just for clarity, the 3M 2-part adhesive is for panel bonding. I am sure other companys produce also.
 
I use this stuff all the time. Strong as hell! Like you say, it will rip the metal before the repair.

caep_0709_04_z+illuminating_words+3m_panel_bonding_adhesive.jpg
 
I have used most of the various manufacturers products, Norton, 3M, Lord/Fusor, Kent, Duramix (now owned by 3M) etc. If you are not looking for an oe restoration it is the way to go for several reasons, corrosion protection being number one. Lap shear tests that I have performed show that the adhesive out does STRSW and plug welding for strength however peel tests are a different story. Most adhesive manufacturers recommend using the adhesive in longitudinal joints and not in vertical joints, the reason being the lap shear strength is better than conventional welding/compression welding but the peel strength doesn't measure up. Most of this is based on crash testing and has shown that the longitudinal seams (bottom of rear 1/4 panel, wheelhouse, front 1/4 to rocker) stand up but the vertical seams (end panel to 1/4 and vertical 1/4 panel pinchweld seam to B/C pillar) would/could separate.

My 2 cents...we can never reproduce what Ma Mopar did in the factory unless you have a STRSW welder and new OEM panels. Plug welding to replace factory spot welds is fine, but far far from OE as it is very difficult to restore corrosion protection in a pinchweld seam. We always body fill over our dressed plug welds to hide them in a visible seam as well. SO, in some instances such as replacing a 1/4 panel you would be doing yourself and the vehicle justice to use new technology to restore your car, but use it wisely. Improperly prepared seams will not receive the adhesive and will fail...seen it before and it is a disaster. You MUST read and follow the Adhesive Manufacturers directions to a T, no exceptions or shortcuts apply here. And from my experience, even though manufacturers say it can be done, never use it under an exposed seam which will have body filler applied over it. (IE: sail panel) I have see the bonded seam reappear in the finish due to annual expansion contraction, welding is the only correct way to dress a sail panel. The bonded seam does not crack...but can appear as an outline of the seam. The same goes for bonding patches in high visibility areas (Sail panels) you may see the patch outline!

A bonded seam will ultimately outlast and out perform a welded one for two reasons...corrosion protection and strength if used correctly.
Another note is it should never be used solely to bond structural components such as frame rails!!! But could be used in conjunction with STRSW for ultimate strength and corrosion protection. The material is designed for cosmetic/light structural panels...
Cheers!

BTW, not to deflate Dantraps statement, but overclamping (to much clamping force, not too many clamps) is a mistake, you need a consistent amount of adhesive in the seam or it will peel!
 
Wow! This is some great information.
 
I am no bodyman, but I have used the 3m 8116 for my 68 charger grill restoration. I found that it bonds plastic very well. I had several little "fins" in the grill that I had to put back and some that I had to recreate buy cutting them out of old grill parts. I fixed cracks with it and filled spots with it in the plastic.

It's very strong. I wish it set up a bit faster, but that's what I get for using it on something for which it was likely not intended. :HappyNewYear:
 
dkn1997 said:
I am no bodyman, but I have used the 3m 8116 for my 68 charger grill restoration. I found that it bonds plastic very well. I had several little "fins" in the grill that I had to put back and some that I had to recreate buy cutting them out of old grill parts. I fixed cracks with it and filled spots with it in the plastic.

It's very strong. I wish it set up a bit faster, but that's what I get for using it on something for which it was likely not intended. :HappyNewYear:
Click to expand...

Lord Fusor has a structural bonding adhesive that is amazing for stuff like that, it is clear and sets up in 90 seconds at room temp. Product #141. A word of caution...expensive stuff these adhesives...you must know the plastic that you are working with. Olefin vs. non olefin based plastics. In simpler terms...ABS, PVC, PUR, PC, TPUR, are a few that once cleaned will bond well with many adhesives out there, but beware of olefin based plastics such as PP,TPO,TEO,TEU, as an example. These guys need an adhesion promoter and special prep in some cases. A simple rule when identifying which is which for plastics is to carve a small piece of the plastic of the part to be repaired and throw it in some water. break the surface tension on the water by submerging the plastic, if it floats it needs an adhesion promoter, if it sinks it doesn't. Another plastic that cannot be repaired with any adhesive is PE, or polyethylene, it will float as it is an olefin but no adhesive on the planet will adhere long term. You can identify plastics by there ISO code found embedded in the part during manufacturing. Washer bottles and overflow tanks are generally made of PE and can only be welded if a repair is needed.

The adhesives are fantastic and should be purchased by application, read the mfg's directions carefully and cleanliness is crucial. Rubber gloves are mandatory to prevent contamination of the bonded area and your bloodstream!

That's my rant for the day...Cheers!
 
haven't seen a 1/4 panel installed like this. Does anyone know of a link that shows this done?
 
I was just getting ready to ask this question today. My dad and I used this on a 70 Torinio Cobra SCJ car years ago. I think it was 8-9 years now and it worked really good.

We did weld one side and the other side a rep asked my dad to give this product a try and we used it and it held up and looked great. I sold the car a few years later so I have no ide if it held up over time.

How are the products today compaired to 9 years ago?

What product have you guys used and like better over the other and why?

Thanks.
 
The products today are great, I have used Fusor, 3M and Duramix since their arrival on the market in the 80's. They all have pro's and some con's and they all have different appliction techniques/procedures. I am a fan of Fusor due to it's large product line and OE certification, but I wouldn't hesitate to use 3M, Norton, etc. for most applications. As I said before, I have seen issues with seams reappearing on sail panels etc where adhesive was used, but then again that was quite a few years ago and fully believe it has everything to do with expansion and contraction and the adhesive not keeping up with the steel. The joints did not fail, I want to be clear about that, just showed a ghost outline over time where the seam was bonded.

Cheers.
 
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