Timing problem

[powermyster]

Hi all,

I had an issue with my car the last time I had it out, it started pinging. I'd set the timing up well over a year before after fitting a Petronix Ready to Run distributor.

Anyway I pulled over about a mile from home and backed the timing off and this seemed to help. I just completed some jobs on the car and set the timing to 17* initial and 33* total (16 in the mechanical advance since I last set it no vacuum advance connected).

It idled fine started ok, took it for a short drive and still pinging. Got it back to the garage and check the timing again and it wasn't at 17*. Set it to 17* clamped it down revved it up check the total at 33* and the initial was at 24* even after idle settled back.

I checked the timing with both a Snap on and Innova lights with dial back function, initial seems erratic with both.

I pulled the cap and rotor just to see if there was anything obvious, the weights seems to be moving freely thought there seems to be some play in the shaft before the spring engage.



Is this play normal?

I might get a timing tape on the damper and record the reading without the use of the dial back function to see what its doing.

 

[Bill Monk]

I was recently schooled by another member on multi spark ignitions and the fact that you cannot get an accurate reading with that type of ignition using a dial back timing light. On these ignitions, you have to use a standard light and tape. I have no experience with rtr pertonix mind you and this may not apply here but it worth a shot to check it with a good standard light.

 

[powermyster]

I don’t think the flamethrower II is multi spark, no issues before setting the timing.

Gonna try a tape anyway.

Gladly accept any pointers if anyone has any ideas.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Timing set one year ago, no ping. Just started pining the other day. Bad gas or accidentally put in 87/89 instead of premium....just a guess. Try pouring a gallon or two xylene or toluene in the tank. Use a funnel and watch your paint. Those paint thinners are 105/110 octane....and use one of those two, not just "any" paint thinner. If the ping goes way, then you've probably got low octane gas your last fill up.

 

[Shorthorse]

Just something else to check. What damper do you have? Elastomer style dampers can deteriorate over time and lead to timing issues.

 

[powermyster]

Just the one type of gas sold over here really.

No idea on the type of damper, just looks like a standard damper. Suppose I better pull no1 plug and confirm it’s location to rule it out.

One thing that I did notice and i put it down to the dial back on the light was when I started to increase the RPM dial back set at 17* the mark appeared to retard at first before moving to advance.

 

[Bill Monk]

What is your compression ratio? If you have high compression, it could just be that pump gas isn't giving you the octane you need but that still doesn't explain why you are getting different readings

 

[Shorthorse]

Just the one type of gas sold over here really.

No idea on the type of damper, just looks like a standard damper. Suppose I better pull no1 plug and confirm it’s location to rule it out.

One thing that I did notice and i put it down to the dial back on the light was when I started to increase the RPM dial back set at 17* the mark appeared to retard at first before moving to advance.

One trick to check the damper is to put a socket on the crank bolt and turn it. Watch carefully and if you observe any play/difference between the turning of the crank and the crank pulley movement then you have an issue with the damper.

 

[beanhead]

I believe the distributor is the problem...if you have or could maybe borrow one to swap in, that will easily rule out or confirm. It looks like something is loose/worn in there

 

[powermyster]

I wasn’t sure about that play. I’ll pull it and check it out to see if there is anything obvious. Do the shaft ends or drive gears wear?

 

[mopar73dge]

How much play? you should not have any visible play side to side, like a wobble shaft. some re-manufactured dist. are junk a bent shaft, I returned it an bought a new one, all set. Maybe the springs are worn and the mechanical is too much did you check the time at 3500 rpm? and watch the mark on the balancer? it should stay on the line. or with a very, very slight variation with in one degree movement.

 

[powermyster]

The total timing appears to be fine. It just didn’t return to the initial I set.

In the video there is a little side to side play with very light touch of the hand like slack before you feel the spring tension

 

[threewood]

You could mark and pull the distributor to inspect the distributor /oil pump drive gear for wear and slop with a large flat head. Also look at the drive slot on the bottom of the distributor shaft for wear. To me it looks like too much play before the advance weights start to move.

 

[powermyster]

Cheers guys. I’ll pull it tomorrow evening and have a look at the drive gear. Should there be any play in the gear at all??

 

[threewood]

Cheers guys. I’ll pull it tomorrow evening and have a look at the drive gear. Should there be any play in the gear at all??

There will be a little. The few I have messed with had wear on the distributor shaft slot. Mark the drive gear if you decide to pull it as it twists out...you'll see.

 

[Lelo 500]

Those copper straps are not good for timing stops. Those things are are flying and flopping all over the place and can hang-up your mechanical advance. Had the same problem with mine. Try blipping and running the throttle up quickly while watching it on the timing light. Don at FBO can set it up to run like a MSD with a pin and bushing. Fixed mine. Good luck!

 

[Bill Monk]

Those copper straps are not good for timing stops. Those things are are flying and flopping all over the place and can hang-up your mechanical advance. Had the same problem with mine. Try blipping and running the throttle up quickly while watching it on the timing light. Don at FBO can set it up to run like a MSD with a pin and bushing. Fixed mine. Good luck!

Don is a good man and a go to guy when it comes to tuning

 

[powermyster]

Waiting on the timing tapes to arrive. Just popped the distributor out to check the drive gear and slot.

There seems to be a bit of play with the gears itself. Is this play excessive?

 

[HALIFAXHOPS]

To me the distrib slot looks excessive. Measure both sides of it if it is more than a few thousands change it.

 

[miller]

The slot on that shaft is flat wore out. It will never be right, until you replace it.