To crate or not to crate

[rrTor-Red]

Looking at either buying a 451 crate engine or building one with a 400 block. Would you buy a crate from a sponsor and it will be dynoed? Or build a 451 with a 400? I would like the pro's and con's. Has anyone bought a crate and those who built one. I'm looking at the cost factor..ie cost/reliability/creditbility from a sponsor that kind of stuff. Thanks!

 

[IQ52]

If you want an engine from a sponsor, call Mike at MRL. I've run against him and seen his work. He'll build it nice and dyno it for you. Give him your budget and see what he could do.

We dyno every engine that goes out of our shop. Well, the one 454 Chevy that the owner couldn't afford to dyno, we just fired up and broke in to protect the flat tappet cam and check for leaks. Rats, I really wanted to know what it would do.

 

[arsinist01]

I've looked into both crate engines and building my motor myself (with some help from a machine shop). It is always cheaper to build it yourself (well almost always). But the good thing about a crate engine is they usually come with a warranty.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Heck building a motor is where all the fun is! And its less expensive if you do it right. Build a 451 with alum heads, and follow one of the build guidelines that I Q 52 has suggested, and you can get around 600 horse and up if its done properly. Thats My idea anyway.

 

[Garys1969RR]

The 451 I built has mildly ported 906 heads, 12 to 1 C/R, 509 cam, stock valve train, Holley Street dominator intake, 700 dbl pumper Holley, and has ran a best of 13.66 in a 69 RR with 16" street tires. Stock HP ex manifolds, at 5400 feet MSL. Thats after 2 trips to the strip. Still some sorting out to do. Plus as funds become available can upgrade to Stealth heads, roller cam and rockers.

 

[RustyRatRod]

If you do decide to go with a crate engine, Mike Liston is a really stand up guy at MRL as mentioned. If I had the coin, that's probably how I'd go instead of sweatin it out myself......but then again, it's a lotta fun slingin my own stuff together.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Check out Carolina Machine Engines.. Purchased my long block from them, just sent in a core. Very inexpensive, top quality work, and have a great warranty. It was cheaper getting them to build the engine, than for me to purchase the parts and to take it to the local machine shop. It is less expensive (IMO) to buy a crate engine or to have your engine rebuilt by a competent shop if you have all the funds available at one time. It is "fun" to build your own engine, but I like having the piece of mind that one individual who is certified and has been working for 10-20 years building engines, is the only one touching mine. All work is done 'in house' at Carolina Machine Engines. First time we cranked up the car, we drove it to Daytona (or 100 miles away). Still is running perfect a few thousand miles later..

 

[RustyRatRod]

Crate engines are a great choice if you have the coin. Make sure you do your homework though. Any company that will not invite you to walk through their facilities or offer a good warranty probably has something to hide.

I build my own for several reasons. Because I know how, because it's fun and because I cannot afford a big chunk of coin all in one spot. Maybe a couple hundred here and there. It's just more comfortable for me that way.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I have a little over 3000.00 in my 451. Thats with Ross racing pistons, 900 in machine work, 300.00 for a 400 engine, 906 heads, manifold, cam, bearings etc. it all adds up. But now I have a bunch of spare parts I can trade or sell. And a good running motor I know exactly whats in it. What does a crate 451 run these days? And what heads does it come with? But looking back, I could have built a 512 stroker for close to that or a few hundred more.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I have a little over 3000.00 in my 451. Thats with Ross racing pistons, 900 in machine work, 300.00 for a 400 engine, 906 heads, manifold, cam, bearings etc. it all adds up. But now I have a bunch of spare parts I can trade or sell. And a good running motor I know exactly whats in it. What does a crate 451 run these days? And what heads does it come with? But looking back, I could have built a 512 stroker for close to that or a few hundred more.

I had my 440 rebuilt for $2,000 from CME. That included all new valvetrain, head work, .509 camshaft, etc. Engine was balanced, "blue-printed", and camshaft was degreed. They now cost $2,496 and their 440 with the 280 comp cam makes 440 horse power. I know this is not a 451, (400 stroker) but I am sure the cost would be nearly the same.

http://www.cmengines.com/

 

[bigredbird]

I'm happy with my crate Marshall 408. The old 360 that was in the car started spewing white smoke shortly after I got it in '08, and I had the choice of rebuilding or dropping in a ready-to-roll motor. It's no fun having a new ride that's sitting in a shop all summer getting the horses groomed, so I went with the crate and got it back on the road in quick time. 400hp and "not terrible" gas mileage with 3:55s, plus a good warranty and awesome online support when I have parts/specs questions.

 

[Garys1969RR]

That s a good deal, Sweet5ltr. I am also using the 509 cam. What added alot to my cost, was 150.00 for a crank, plus 400.00 of machine work on it. Could have prob just bought a brand new crank for 550.00. Even a 4.25" stroke. But live and learn. Plus I bought a Street Dominator intake, and a 700 Holley dbl pump I included in the total. Then Melling Hi Volume oil pump, 55.00. Etc. So have you ran your RR thru the 1/4 mile yet? Let me know how it runs.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Hi Big Red Bird, thats funny, but I am already donating to a blue one in my back yard! LOL. If the pace keeps up, I will be living in the back yard too, Ha Ha. Good Luck with your projects.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

That s a good deal, Sweet5ltr. I am also using the 509 cam. What added alot to my cost, was 150.00 for a crank, plus 400.00 of machine work on it. Could have prob just bought a brand new crank for 550.00. Even a 4.25" stroke. But live and learn. Plus I bought a Street Dominator intake, and a 700 Holley dbl pump I included in the total. Then Melling Hi Volume oil pump, 55.00. Etc. So have you ran your RR thru the 1/4 mile yet? Let me know how it runs.

Well, I installed RPM Heads, a Victor manifold, highly modified 750 holley/proform carb, and a .590 solid cam with crane ductile iron rockers since the rebuild. I actually had a .509 camshaft initially with a performer RPM manifold, which I really liked but went with the XE285HL from Competition Cams when I installed the aluminum heads. Just installed the .590 last week and it's Amazing compared to the two previous camshafts, just a better overall combination. Hoping, somewhere in the very low 11's to high 10's. The car is pretty light (8-10lb fiberglass hood, fiberglass bumpers, draglites, fuel cell, etc.), and has all the D.C. chassis modifications.

....Just depends on how fast I can :3gears: