Valve stem seal for 452 heads

[fred_flag]

I have a 1968 383 engine that run 440 heads (452 casting).
The head are from 1976.
I need to replace the valve stem seal. I have bought a Fel-Pro gasket set KS2110 to rebuild the engine.
However, the heads coming from a later 440 motor, have different valve stem seal seating and the seal that came with the gasket set do not work.
Any of you have a part that work with those head?
First image is the valve seal seating.
Second image, left to right:
1- Valve seal that come with the kit and work, but I am missing 8 of them.
2- Valve seal that come with the kit and do not work
3- Valve seal that come with the kit and do not work
4- ENGINETECH S2888 too loose
5- ENGINETECH S2970 too small

 

[69Bee]

Left to right:
1) Later year intake positive seal
2) Exhaust umbrella seal
3) Early year intake umbrella seal
4) Aftermarket positive/umbrella seal
5) Aftermarket metal clad positive seal (guide OD needs to be machined to fit seal)

Your gasket set should have had 3 bags of seals (#'s 1, 2 & 3) and the instruction sheet in the box tells you which to use for your year. You can also just use the ones you want for the intake and exhaust.

 

[4406bbl]

If number 1 fits the intake number 2 goes on the exhaust. 452 just used an umbrella that rode the valve stem.

 

[PRHeads]

I have used seals like the one to the left on both intake/exhaust before, along with that style on the intake and the short umbrella (2nd from left) on the exhaust.
I’ve also used long umbrellas on both, and the long umbrellas on the intake, short umbrellas on the exhaust.
In the 33 years I’ve been doing this as a job I’ve seen a lot of different seal types used.

For performance builds, especially where higher than stock lift cams will be used, I machine the guides to use the steel jacketed Viton seals like what essentially every modern engine uses.

 

[fred_flag]

If number 1 fits the intake number 2 goes on the exhaust. 452 just used an umbrella that rode the valve stem.

#1 fit the intake and the exhaust.
When I remove the valve, both the intake and exhaust have the #1 on them.
So can I install the #2 on the exhaust anyway? Since the seal will not be attach to anything it will go up and down with the valve stem am I right?

 

[fred_flag]

I have used seals like the one to the left on both intake/exhaust before, along with that style on the intake and the short umbrella (2nd from left) on the exhaust.
I’ve also used long umbrellas on both, and the long umbrellas on the intake, short umbrellas on the exhaust.
In the 33 years I’ve been doing this as a job I’ve seen a lot of different seal types used.

For performance builds, especially where higher than stock lift cams will be used, I machine the guides to use the steel jacketed Viton seals like what essentially every modern engine uses.

View attachment 1269094 View attachment 1269095 View attachment 1269096

My valve guide look like the top image.
Since it's absolutely not a performance build, I will let the valve guide as is and probably go with the positive seal on the intake and short umbrella for the exhaust.

 

[69Bee]

Again, #1 or #3 on the intake, and #2 on the exhaust.

#1 stays on the guide and provides oil control for the valve stem. A poor choice for a worn guide as the valve rock will pull the seal open as it rocks and allow excessive oil in.
#2 positions itself on the valve stem when valve is moved, and only allows oil mist to the stem and avoids direct oil spray, but allows more oil for the hotter exhaust valve
#3 does the same as #2, but reduced the amount of oil mist to the intake stem as that valve is cooler and doesn't require as much oil

 

[4406bbl]

#1 fit the intake and the exhaust.
When I remove the valve, both the intake and exhaust have the #1 on them.
So can I install the #2 on the exhaust anyway? Since the seal will not be attach to anything it will go up and down with the valve stem am I right?

Correct, your call with worn guides how long everything will last, exhaust umbrellas obviously will not wear as they ride the stem but it could smoke a little at start up if guides are really worn.

 

[fred_flag]

Final update.
I was less stupid then I tough, when I dismantle the head, I have kept the old valve seal in the bag.
So I have use the same as before, #1 on the intake and #3 on the exhaust.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Geoff 2]

The one shown in post #4 is the only type that I use.

 

[Cartel]

I have used seals like the one to the left on both intake/exhaust before, along with that style on the intake and the short umbrella (2nd from left) on the exhaust.
I’ve also used long umbrellas on both, and the long umbrellas on the intake, short umbrellas on the exhaust.
In the 33 years I’ve been doing this as a job I’ve seen a lot of different seal types used.

For performance builds, especially where higher than stock lift cams will be used, I machine the guides to use the steel jacketed Viton seals like what essentially every modern engine uses.

View attachment 1269094 View attachment 1269095 View attachment 1269096

View attachment 1269097

I got my heads back. Kline like you said and he used these seals.
I see guys saying that too good a seal will gall the valves. are these still ok?

thanks

 

[RemCharger]

As mentioned all new motors use the positive style seals without galling. I've never heard someone say that

 

[Cartel]

As mentioned all new motors use the positive style seals without galling. I've never heard someone say that

My thoughts...
I have used Perfect Circle teflon type that used a "garter" spring sround the base, to kerp them in place. However, this seal required the machining of the guide to accommodate the seal. Since the head was off anyway, this is no big deal.....check valve to guide specs anyway. If too loose, consider machining for bronze guides. The teflon type seals were reputed to cause valve stem wear because they did a good job of wiping oil from the valve stem, causing a gaulling. I never had that problem. Just be careful of the underside of the retainer to seal clearance at max valve lift....interference will damage the seal. Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON

maybe teflon is the difference. I told the shop I just wanted umbrella seals but he also didnt gasket match the intake ports like I asked either.