Ways to increase performance and HP/torqu without machining heads/crank or major engine dissassebly

[Evan Frucht]

Without major $ the Poly is going to be slow at best. How quick/how many $/how much work/how much skill do you have? These will determine the correct path to take.
Doug

I picked the car up for basically nothing so I got some money to throw at it. Also not to toot my own horn but I'm pretty skilled with this kind of stuff especially fabrication/custom work and am learning more about the mechanical/engine. My father opened and owned an auto body shop for many years and I've got access to many of his old tools. I am able to basically do any kind of work I want on the car, my circumstances don't limit me much.

 

[BSB67]

. I am able to basically do any kind of work I want on the car, my circumstances don't limit me much.

Except for the fact it's a 318 poly. And no amount of tools or skills will overcome that deficiet in a reasonable or meaningful way.

 

[Evan Frucht]

Except for the fact it's a 318 poly. And no amount of tools or skills will overcome that deficiet in a reasonable or meaningful way.

I'm not shooting for something to win races or bragging contests. I just want reliable street rod with plenty of power that I can drive frequently. Shooting for a little over 300hp if I can pull it... If I wanted could replace the engine with a 440 but since this is the original engine and it's pretty recently been rebuilt+ it has the old poly four barrel intake that's seems kinda hard to find. The way I see it its is good start for where I'm trying to go.

If the car had a bad engine or none at all when I bought it I'd probably be shoving a big block in there with a four speed manual.

 

[Evan Frucht]

BTW he's some pics for now. Just put in an new aluminum radiator, and rebuilt/soda blasted the carb. I'm looking for a vintage air cleaner at the moment, that's the one that came on the car...

 

[rumblefish360]

Except for the fact it's a 318 poly. And no amount of tools or skills will overcome that deficiet in a reasonable or meaningful way.

Two things hold the Poly back from serious performance. The limitations of the head and to push that one further, no aftermarket heads.

We have a member here doing some wild work on a Poly head.
Click this and check this **** out...> https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/cnc-ported-318-poly-heads.61890/

Camshafts;

Save a custom grind. Off the shelf units are limited. So the casual hot rodder doesn’t have a lot to choose from.

You can get the cam for the Poly series engine in any of the 4 flavors anyone else can. Call Crane Cams so they can take a blank LAncore and have them cut you a solid roller or a hyd. roller with no need for a bronze gear.

Pistons will be expensive if you decide to go with anything more than a stock replacement, stock modified replacement, like increased compression height. However, I have seen a member here (same link as above) take a huge step and got himself a custom dome slug for his Poly.

If you know of another deficit that I missed, please list it. I like a challenge!

Being an “A” engine, much is shared and carries over. Super charger roots and hair drier style can be bad for a Poly.

 

[BSB67]

BTW he's some pics for now. Just put in an new aluminum radiator, and rebuilt/soda blasted the carb. I'm looking for a vintage air cleaner at the moment, that's the one that came on the car...

View attachment 652083 View attachment 652084 View attachment 652085

Very cool car. Enjoy it.

 

[BSB67]

Two things hold the Poly back from serious performance. The limitations of the head and to push that one further, no aftermarket heads.

We have a member here doing some wild work on a Poly head.
Click this and check this **** out...> https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/cnc-ported-318-poly-heads.61890/

Camshafts;

Save a custom grind. Off the shelf units are limited. So the casual hot rodder doesn’t have a lot to choose from.

You can get the cam for the Poly series engine in any of the 4 flavors anyone else can. Call Crane Cams so they can take a blank LAncore and have them cut you a solid roller or a hyd. roller with no need for a bronze gear.

Pistons will be expensive if you decide to go with anything more than a stock replacement, stock modified replacement, like increased compression height. However, I have seen a member here (same link as above) take a huge step and got himself a custom dome slug for his Poly.

If you know of another deficit that I missed, please list it. I like a challenge!

Being an “A” engine, much is shared and carries over. Super charger roots and hair drier style can be bad for a Poly.

Two things: 1) consider reading the OP's criteria, 2) consider looking up the word reasonable.

 

[rumblefish360]

Two things: 1) consider reading the OP's criteria, 2) consider looking up the word reasonable.

On the OP’s criteria, I did and have been participating according as the information rolls in however.....

Except for the fact it's a 318 poly. And no amount of tools or skills will overcome that deficiet in a reasonable or meaningful way.

This is a BS statement and calls to a short coming that isn’t 100% true where as I listed the possible venues to take. You stated “Except it is a Poly” as if that is not just a huge hinderance but closer to a absolute zero choice.

The best is the next line where you so “No amount of tools or skill......”
That is a joke in a bad way as you short sell not only yourself but the OP and others that have made good use and power out of that engine series.

The word reasonable is also like the word or phrase, power, going fast, minor modifications, sleeper, etc...
As well as how deep your pockets are and what exactly is cheap or expensive.

Since YOU put the label of limitation on the possibility due to the fact it is a ploy, I showed differently. OP’s criteria or not.

Now! If your pockets only allow so much money to be spent on such endeavors, don’t shove your ideas down others throats as if that is a reasonable limit.

The same goes for machining.
The same goes for Imagination
The same goes for skill behind a machine

Your post is suggesting a huge short coming and I took the challenge of showing differently. Cost not a factor. Just a reply to you and only you.
Nothing to do with the OP in which I have gave my “Reasonable answers” to and you would know

IF YOU READ THE THREAD

Your reply is pathetic and small. And not meeting the challenge I set to you.

 

[moper]

If it were me, given it's got a 4bbl on it - stick a smaller camshaft in it with a decent ignition and dual exhaust, and drive it. It won't be 300hp, but it's oozing "coolness" just by the shape so make it pop visually and you'll be fine. Unfortunately it looks like only Camcraft has the cam cores. So they can help you, or someone like Schneider Cams or Oregon or others can regrind your original to a little bumpier specs.

 

[tomlin]

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/strange-v-8-make-power-with-chryslers-obscure-poly-318-small-block/

 

[BSB67]

On the OP’s criteria, I did and have been participating according as the information rolls in however.....

This is a BS statement and calls to a short coming that isn’t 100% true where as I listed the possible venues to take. You stated “Except it is a Poly” as if that is not just a huge hinderance but closer to a absolute zero choice.

The best is the next line where you so “No amount of tools or skill......”
That is a joke in a bad way as you short sell not only yourself but the OP and others that have made good use and power out of that engine series.

The word reasonable is also like the word or phrase, power, going fast, minor modifications, sleeper, etc...
As well as how deep your pockets are and what exactly is cheap or expensive.

Since YOU put the label of limitation on the possibility due to the fact it is a ploy, I showed differently. OP’s criteria or not.

Now! If your pockets only allow so much money to be spent on such endeavors, don’t shove your ideas down others throats as if that is a reasonable limit.

The same goes for machining.
The same goes for Imagination
The same goes for skill behind a machine

Your post is suggesting a huge short coming and I took the challenge of showing differently. Cost not a factor. Just a reply to you and only you.
Nothing to do with the OP in which I have gave my “Reasonable answers” to and you would know

IF YOU READ THE THREAD

Your reply is pathetic and small. And not meeting the challenge I set to you.

I can tell you're really twisted up about this.

Your last post was unpersuasive, and the one before that, if anything kinda supports my position, IMO. I will agree that opinions will vary on the meaning of reasonable.

The 318 Poly is a hindrance, and cost does matter, and therefore in my book is not reasonable. No where did I say it could not be done. And I think most will agree just because something can be done, does not make it reasonable.

I believe that the OP has implied that if he had a bad motor, he would do a 440. May the OP already suspects that if he needs to do heads/crank and major disassembly, it would be more reasonable to go a different route. Just guessing though.

People, including myself, will make unreasonable choices simply because they want to. That is what they want - perfect, but does not make it any more reasonable.

 

[rumblefish360]

I can tell you're really twisted up about this.

Incorrect! Negative! That’s just your twisted head thinking your the better and in the better.

Your last post was unpersuasive, and the one before that, if anything kinda supports my position,

It wasn’t meant to be that way but informative to the unknowing. That’s you by the way.

The 318 Poly is a hindrance, and cost does matter, and therefore in my book is not reasonable. No where did I say it could not be done.

Nor did you say it could be but you also said no amount of ..... so there your saying it cannot be without the use of the actual words.

Oh please! Come on now.... really?!?! Like a 5th grader

And I think most will agree just because something can be done, does not make it reasonable.

Agreed.

I believe that the OP has implied that if he had a bad motor, he would do a 440.

Without reviewing, I don’t think he did but did say he had a 440 and would swap if the need (or want) arises.

May(be) the OP already suspects that if he needs to do heads/crank and major disassembly, it would be more reasonable to go a different route. Just guessing though.

I believe that’s the route and one I’d take unless the Poly NEEDS to be in there, for whatever reason, reasonable or not.

People, including myself, will make unreasonable choices simply because they want to. That is what they want - perfect, but does not make it any more reasonable.

Again, reasonable is a point of view.
Desire, want, etc... over rule reason for another reason. Not saying that is a wiser move, just the one sought after.

A great example is racing ether the Poly or the 440. If inexpensive and very fast are the order, then the Poly is out unless it is a nostalgia class demanding the Poly com that car where a 430 wasn’t available?

Now it comes down to race what ya got or get another car that has a 440 in it?

Reasonable or not the Poly can be a good and power making engine. It has limits. More so than others.
But to call it a hinderance? Wrong all day long.
I’d say there are a few hinderances to racing one competitively in very quick classes.

 

[66 Sat]

Mate,
I'd just clean the engine up, maybe add some headers down the track and be done with it. Definitely contact Gary Pavlovich for advice and he has parts too - he can help with cam selection if you give him all the details. Mine has plenty of power, a truckload of low down torque and sounds glorious. The heads had a mild port and polish with a decent cam from Gary. Sure, it won't run 12 seconds down the quarter but it's really nice to drive on the street with decent gas mileage and good manners. I toyed with the idea of a crate engine but am glad I stuck with the old "boat anchor". I don't know what it's like in the States with speeding and cameras and everything, but if it's in any way like over here you can't go that fast anymore without being in big trouble.

​

 

[dvw]

Beyond headers, timing and a decent air filter things will get costly. My point was a near stock magnum 360 with headers and a 4 barrel intake would smoke a stock lower end Poly with aftermaket heads, cam, and intake for far less cost. Bolt in. A stock headed poly is never going to make 300. With a stock cam my bet is it would be hard pressed to make much over 225.
Doug

 

[polywideblock]

https://cpwebstore.com/Poly

 

[Evan Frucht]

Just to clear things up I did say earlier that if 318 engine was bad or missing from the car then I would probably look to buy an old 440 and put it in there... but I think I'll hold off on that idea for now since I got a decent start already. Also, the previous owner mentioned that when he rebuilt the drivetrain he had them install a "mild cam" (I dont know if they got him a new one or just reground the original one) and machine the heads. I forget the name but it was apperently a well regarded shop in Long Beach. I don't have much experience with these engine and nothing to compare to but the way the engine runs and idles makes me feel like the cam is "hotter" than stock. I guess there's no real way to tell without looking at it.

Also in my cars manual the specs state the 318 makes 240hp stock. I read also that the late 50's 318 Desotos with the four barrel intake like mine made up to 290hp stock. Maybe I'm way off...

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Just to clear things up I did say earlier that if 318 engine was bad or missing from the car then I would probably look to buy an old 440 and put it in there... but I think I'll hold off on that idea for now since I got a decent start already. Also, the previous owner mentioned that when he rebuilt the drivetrain he had them install a "mild cam" (I dont know if they got him a new one or just reground the original one) and machine the heads. I forget the name but it was apperently a well regarded shop in Long Beach. I don't have much experience with these engine and nothing to compare to but the way the engine runs and idles makes me feel like the cam is "hotter" than stock. I guess there's no real way to tell without looking at it.

Also in my cars manual the specs state the 318 makes 240hp stock. I read also that the late 50's 318 Desotos with the four barrel intake like mine made up to 290hp stock. Maybe I'm way off...

Seems like a great scenario to have an 'old' 440ci BBM on the engine stand and slowly fund that build while driving the Poly. Just another option and opinion.

 

[dvw]

Also in my cars manual the specs state the 318 makes 240hp stock. I read also that the late 50's 318 Desotos with the four barrel intake like mine made up to 290hp stock. Maybe I'm way off...[/QUOTE]

The service manual and reality are far apart. Take it to the track or dyno. That'll be the telling tale. I'd bet high 16 low 17 in the 1/4. The bottom line is if you are happy with the performance then its all good. If not, the Poly platform will take a lot of cash to make 300hp or better. What are your expectations? The motor described in the previous post, $2800 heads, $650 intake, +stroker crank,
+ pistons,+ cam, +T&D valvetrain. It may be cool, but the cost per HP is insane.
Doug

 

[66 Sat]

From my experience (actually owning a poly and having it re-built), if you have a decent cam, 4 barrel intake and carb, headers and a good ignition system you should have plenty of poke for street driving. Mine feels as fast as my old Falcon which had a 351 Cleveland with all the aforementioned mods and used to run low 14's , and easily as fast as my old 69 Barracuda which had a 318 LA engine with Edelbrock Performer intake & cam, 600 holley, headers etc and run 14.9 from memory with 2.76 gears. This is in a heavier B body too. I think this thread is losing sight of what you are trying to achieve.

 

[rumblefish360]

Also in my cars manual the specs state the 318 makes 240hp stock. I read also that the late 50's 318 Desotos with the four barrel intake like mine made up to 290hp stock. Maybe I'm way off...

The service manual and reality are far apart. Take it to the track or dyno. That'll be the telling tale. I'd bet high 16 low 17 in the 1/4. The bottom line is if you are happy with the performance then its all good. If not, the Poly platform will take a lot of cash to make 300hp or better. What are your expectations? The motor described in the previous post, $2800 heads, $650 intake, +stroker crank,
+ pistons,+ cam, +T&D valvetrain. It may be cool, but the cost per HP is insane.
Doug[/QUOTE]
Anytime you take stock to stroked, it’s more money, adding the costs of the pricey after market parts adds up for sure. He didn’t want to go that far. But the factory 290 rating, accurate or not on today’s dyno wouldn’t show a good time slip unless you gave the rest of the drive train and car a good make over to exploit the power.