What kind of Transmission do I have??

[Postman]

Hello

I have a few stupid questions about my Transmission.

I own a 1962 Dodge Dart, powered by a 225 cui slant 6.
The Trans is a manual 3 Speed, on the tree.

What I would like to know:

Was there only one 3 Speed Trans for the Slant 6 cars in ’62?
If, what’s the name of this Gearbox and where can I get parts?

Is it possible to swap a 318 V8 and keep the 3 speed Trans, that is in the car, perhaps with a differnt clutch and/or bellhousing??

 

[Postman]

O.K. I wanna ask different:

The manual says there are 2 3-Speed Transmissions availiable.

The Standard and the heavy duty.

How can I identify what is installed? I can't find any numbers.

The transmission is very noisy in 1st and 2nd gear, so I will need some parts and a new clutch.

Is anybody knowing a good shop for parts??

 

[Cranky]

Noisy in 1st and 2nd but not 3rd gear? Usually a front or rear bearing is bad. Once in high gear, the load is straight through the box and no longer on the bearings. Pretty common in the light duty units for this to happen but it can happen in the heavy duty unit too but not as much. You might check with this company http://www.brewersperformance.com/
If they can't help you, they probably know someone who can.

 

[Postman]

Yes, that's what I thought too!
I guessed front bearing.

I will contact Brewers. If they have parts for the 3-Speed or giving me another shop that could help with 3-Speed parts, I will post it here.

Thank you Cranky!!!

 

[17WithaCoronetRT]

I dont know much but i would guess that when the car was made heavy duty was not needed for a slant 6

and come to my surprise i found this website had transmissions listed that were used for mopars

http://www.darkside.ca/a-4spd.asp

"A-904 3 speed light duty transmission used with /6 and small v8's"

 

[chignikred]

"Usually a front or rear bearing is bad. Once in high gear, the load is straight through the box and no longer on the bearings."

Bearings being the problem is most likely. HOWEVER the last statement actually isnt true.
Load is always on the bearings, as they are always spinning under engine rpm (when driving). Load always enters the front input gear, goes to counter shaft, and out the engaged gear of mainshaft. That meerly changes by the synchro engagement.

Also the 'forgotten' bearings that go bad are the needle bearings in the countershaft.
Std trans has Alum extention housing. HD unit has a cast iron housing.

red.
One who actually works on manual trans.

 

[Cranky]

"Usually a front or rear bearing is bad. Once in high gear, the load is straight through the box and no longer on the bearings."

Bearings being the problem is most likely. HOWEVER the last statement actually isnt true.
Load is always on the bearings, as they are always spinning under engine rpm (when driving). Load always enters the front input gear, goes to counter shaft, and out the engaged gear of mainshaft. That meerly changes by the synchro engagement.

Also the 'forgotten' bearings that go bad are the needle bearings in the countershaft.
Std trans has Alum extention housing. HD unit has a cast iron housing.

red.
One who actually works on manual trans.

Yup, you're right about the counter shaft is always turning but once in high gear the power (load) isn't being applied to the counter gear like it is when it's engaged while in 1st and 2nd. The power is not actually "passing through" the gears, the synchronizer assembly has locked the input shaft to the output shaft, causing both to move at the same speed. Third gear still turns at engine speed, and drives the countergear. The counter gear still drives first gear, second gear and reverse gear (via the reverse idler), but they are free to spin on the output shaft.

 

[Postman]

I will get the Trans out of the Dart, as soon as possible (hope next week)
Then we will see.

@cranky: Thank you again for the contact to Brewers!
I spoke to Dan of Brewers performance. They don't have parts for the 3-Speed manuals, but he searched a lot and found part numbers for me!! And gave me the contact of Valley Vintages! Verry cool and a lot of stuff to find, when you know the part number.
It was a great thing to speak with Brewers, these guys are cool!!!!

@17WithaCoronetRT:Thank you for the darkside link.
The 904 3 speed is an automatic transmission.
I need parts for the manual 3 speed.
But I found something about the A-745 and A-250 3 speed transmissons on their side and searched for more on the internet. very interesting!!!!!

 

[19Fury63]

This is great info here, being that I have a 63 Fury with a slant 6, and 3-speed with O/D on the floor. From what I read, that wasn't a factory option in 63, so I am guessing my transmission is from the early 70's at some point...which makes even more sense since I've done the "Super Six" conversion using parts from the 70's slants.

I too have toyed with the idea of replacing my motor with a 318, but was unsure of the bellhousing/transmission setup swap needed.

Postman, have you done any alterations/modifications to your slant?

 

[quick63]

I changed a 83 3/4 van from /six to 318...The bell housing are different from 6 to small block but everything including the 4 speed o.d. was the same. The aluminum case 4 speed overdrive has a larger front bearing retainer than a v8 883. As far as the bearing noise, the 4 speed od came from the factory with Automatic Trans Fluid for lubricant. I changed it to 90 wt with a little stp added and got 200,000 miles of towing and heavy loads without a problem. A Hyper /6 with a 4speed is a heck of a package..
I have not seen the slant six class in a couple of years. They allways put on a good show.

 

[17WithaCoronetRT]

oh wow i feel dumb, didnt see that yours was a manual... oops

 

[Cranky]

I changed a 83 3/4 van from /six to 318...The bell housing are different from 6 to small block but everything including the 4 speed o.d. was the same. The aluminum case 4 speed overdrive has a larger front bearing retainer than a v8 883. As far as the bearing noise, the 4 speed od came from the factory with Automatic Trans Fluid for lubricant. I changed it to 90 wt with a little stp added and got 200,000 miles of towing and heavy loads without a problem. A Hyper /6 with a 4speed is a heck of a package..
I have not seen the slant six class in a couple of years. They allways put on a good show.

Yup, the books recommend using 90 wt if you're going to use the trans for heavy duty service. My 74 D100 came with ATF too and that's what the manual said to do. I did make the shifting harder in the winter time tho but after warming up some, that went away. IIRC, my 74 came with the ?250 trans...

 

[19Fury63]

I really wish I had the money and time to convert to the Hyper-Pak, that's a pretty sweet setup. Right now, I just have the "Super Six" which is a 2-bbl Carter carb, air cleaner, intake manifold, upgraded ignition to electronic vs points. Really need to get a set of headers and custom intake for the turbo setup I'm planning on if I don't swap to a V8.

 

[chignikred]

more on 'drive' Load

Cranky's reply is correct on "Load" through the DIRECT gear, ie 3rd on a 3 speed or 4th on a 4 speed. This is because the synchro directly locks the input gear to main shaft. All other gears go along for the free ride via counter shaft. In all other positions, Load does transfer through the countershaft to the selected gear.
However this fine point should not forget the start of the discussion. That BEARING load is going on to both bearings, when car is being propelled. The front bearing gets more torsional wear, as it acts as a fulcrum , with disc torque being rather strong. The rear bearing has more support. Naturally in a rebuilding a trans, one would be foolish to only change the front.
Also these trans have a small rear output bearing which wears out. Ive never seen a good one, on disassembly.

red

 

[Postman]

Finally the trans is out of the Dart. :grin:

After cleaning, I found a number on the case.

I think it reads C-85322-F

After some research, it must be a A-903 Transmission. So the first question of this thread is cleared!

One hour later, it was complete disambled.
The 2 bearings are definitely bad and have to be replaced.

They show the numbers MRC 207 S, on the front bearing and MRC 207 SG on the rear bearing.

I've found them new on the net, but only at a shop that will not ship to Germany.

Is anyone experienced, which bearing, from another manufacturer than MRC will be the same??

But the most bad thing is the layshaft!!! it's got very bad marks and I will not rebuildt the trans, without a new one.

It is a surface hardened part. Where can I get a new one??



@ chignikred: Thank you, I've got the Aluminium extension housing. So it's definetily a standard trans.
The needle bearing don't look bad. I think, I will keep them. They all look good and there are no marks to see. Or could this be a bad mistake???

@19Fury63: I was thinking of a swap, to a small block, But I've got a real nice running Slant 6 in the car. It is a bone stock 225 cui. It was rebuildt a few years ago and purrs like a kitten. So I will keep it stock and try to save some gas money:happy7:. A Date correct bare '62 413 Block is waiting:headbang:, but 'till the swap to the max wedge 413 and a floor shift, I will go with the stock slant and will collect the parts I need.

Hope I will get the parts I need and the trans back in the car soon!
only 4 weeks to the Mopar Nationals Germany!!

 

[Postman]

Just clicked the "buy it now" button for a NOS Countershaft (Layshaft) :hello2:

 

[Postman]

I really need help!!

I thought it will be easy, to find new bearings for the trans, but I was wrong!!!

You will find complete rebuild kits for the BW T85, but for the A-903......
- nothing!!!

I Need the two Bearings (MRC 207 S and MRC 207 SG)
And the needle bearings!!! All needles are damaged.

The 2 I found on ebay are only shipping inside US or will be shipped only by UPS. I can't pay 167,- USD for shipping one Bearing!!!! These UPS guys are crazy!!!
I've found two dealers too, for a rebuild kit, but one has no informations about the kit and the other one is offerring a T85 rebuild kit under the name of a A-903 rebuild kit. But the bearings are bigger!

Has Anybody an idea??
A shop or a dealer.

I don't have the part numbers, that could be helpfull too!
In the manual, it is 21-19-2 and 21-09-5 and 21-17-2 but no one of the NOS Part Dealers is having something in stock under that number.

 

[696pack]

Try here:
http://www.passonperformance.com

OR here:

http://www.zbag.com

 

[shag766]

there is another company in the states that will ship. let me look it up.

 

[Cranky]

http://www.plccenter.com/Buy/MRC%20BEARING/207SG

Do you have any bearing supply houses near you? I know bearings are made there. I was a machinist at a refinery and had a good supply at my disposal but if something wasn't stocked, we could order it through one of our vendors most of the time. There's also a lot of info on the net about bearings and you might could find what you need in a cross reference chart or take what you have to a supply house and see what they can do. Many times bearings from a supply house are cheaper than say from a dealer or from someone that works in the transmission stores.